Learning the Game

[The DAK]

Hey all, I'm fairly new to the game in the sense that I've taken a long break since '03.  Back then I had a basic set of clubs that I bought at a sporting goods store that was perfect for me since I would normally shoot over 100 anyway.  I'm finally in a position financially along with time that I can get back into the game more consistently and learn all the details I never had the time to get into before. The problem is that I don't even know what I don't know yet.

What I'd like to know from all you veterans and experts is if there is a section of this forum board that dedicates itself to people like myself who need things broken down potato head style .  I've made sections on several other forums to help people out with basic stuff that is talked about a lot but isn't understood fully...most notably on football boards explaining what a 3-technique is versus a 5-technique or what it means when somebody is running a post route or what a nickel or dime package is.  Some people know this stuff and some people have no clue.

I have a laundry list of questions and things I want to learn, but I know how annoying it can be for people to ask the same questions over and over on a board when it's already been discussed a million times, so I'd like to know if you all have any suggestions of threads or sections on this board that I can go to to learn what I need to know .  I'll list some of the things I'm interested in below and maybe some people can fill in some gaps of things I've missed.

- What are the parts of the club.  Is it as basic as the grip, the shaft and the head or are there other parts in more detail?

- Looking at club materials I see a lot of fancy wording and while it sounds cool I have no idea what is best.  I see steel, graphite, forged steel or forged composite etc.  I was talking to a buddy of mine at work who sees himself as a bit of a golf guru and he was telling me that irons are best if the shaft is steel since the stiffness of the club will keep your shot more accurate and for woods a lot of people like the graphite because they flex more thus helping with distance.  All that sounded great until I saw on the sites that each club has preferences for purchase for the stiffness levels of the shafts.  If you choose a stiff shaft does that automatically mean you're getting a steel shaft and if you choose a flexible one does that mean it's going to be graphite or is my buddy at work full of it?

- Looking at the sites I see sections for custom shafts along with all the options and specs to choose from.  Is there any difference in quality between an Aldila, Mitsubishi Rayon, Fujikura, Graphite Design, Graffaloy, Matrix or UST or is it just preference in looks or something?  In the FLEX section they have the easy to understand wording like regular, stiff, x-stiff etc. but then there are the numbers like 60, 65, 70 etc...what does that mean?  In the WEIGHT section they have numbered ranges from 50-80 or so.  Are these just ratings on some random scale I don't understand or are they a measurement of grams or what?  In the TORQUE section that's also somewhat self explanatory, but is there a certain preference a relatively inexperienced golfer should go toward?  They rate them from low to medium to high.  I'm assuming a high torque allows for farther distance but may be more difficult to control?!?!  And lastly there's the KICKPOINT.  I'm guessing that is the point of the shaft where the apex of the flex happens whether it be high, mid or low.  What is the difference between the three and why does it matter?

- Since there are quite a few options to choose from with shafts I'm assuming there are just as many, or more, options with heads.  I don't see it listed anywhere but do they have similar types of description categories (flex, weight, torque, kickpoint) like the shafts do that I described above?...I'm assuming different drivers like the Callaway Diablo Octane are going to have different component heads than the RAZR Hawk, but what are the major differences?  I don't see them listed in a breakdown of ratings like the shafts.  They basically just say that they're made out of some kind of material and they go 8 yards farther than this other club.  If I don't know what the differences are how am I supposed to figure out which one I want?

- I'm getting a new set from a sporting goods store to start out with but eventually plan to get fitted when I feel I've become consistent enough to make it worthwhile.  I've read on other threads that going to a box store to get fitted is worthless, but is a place like Golf USA considered a box store or would a place like that be just as good as going to a course and getting fitted by a pro shop?

- When I do get fitted what is the process that I should expect?  Will they fit me for an entire set or just woods or just irons?  Is there a standard flow that each fitting follows or does every place do it differently?  Should I expect every place to go into minute detail as far as having me hit every single club with multiple shafts, multiple heads, multiple grips etc. and if the place doesn't go into that much detail with me am I being taken for a ride?  No matter what the outcome of my fitting should I expect the fitter to build my clubs from scratch or order them from the dealer based on the specs he recommends or is it likely that they'd have the inventory to fit my specific needs?  I'm leary of going through the motions and then them just saying I need one off the shelf thus wasting my time.

- I know every golfer is going to have their own opinion of what company makes the best clubs and each club is going to fit somebody differently than somebody else so it's a stupid question to just randomly ask what the best golf clubs are like I see on here from time to time, but from looking at each website from TM to Nike to Cleveland to Callaway to Cobra etc. I was most impressed with Callaway in that it seemed to really go into detail on each club telling you what it has and what it does.  Should I take anything from that in the sense that it's a better quality club or is it just marketing flub where they decided to really jazz their site up more than others?  And speaking of what company is better quality than another is there really any of the major companies that are better than the other or are they so close because of the technology that they all use that it's six in one and a half dozen in the other?

-  Since I've leaned toward Callaway for the quality and ease of the website along with the looks of the clubs I'm curious about a few of their clubs.  Speaking specifically to just woods to start how do I really find the difference between the Diablo versus the RAZR Hawk, or the RAZR X or RAZR X Tour etc.  I've read all the details but have no clue what I'm reading.  I know some of them have various loft angles depending on how high you want to hit it or it's weighted depending on whether you have a draw or a fade naturally in your swing, but looking at the spec sheet they have various percentages and numbers for shafts and heads and even grips.  One would say since I don't know what all these things mean I have no business buying one of these high priced clubs.  I'd agree and that's why I'm wanting to learn.  My buddy at work also suggested that I stayed away from closed or open faces that help with hooks or slices because once I get better and if my swing corrects itself I may have an offset problem.  Is that something people have ever dealt with or if they naturally have a slice and get a closed face would they normally keep that swing since they appear to be hitting it straight regularly?

- I went into a place to talk to a guy briefly about getting fitted and I told him which clubs I was interested in and he did say that I should hit various types of clubs because maybe the club I want just doesn't fit me well at all.  If there's a specific company I'd like to stick with is it possible to change shaft length and flex along with the grip or head among other changes to make a club fit me or is it possible that a Callaway club or Nike or Ping etc. just is impossible to be a good fit no matter how much tinkering they do?

There are a million other things I'm wanting to know, but this post has already gotten out of hand.  I just need some guidence on where to go on this site to find out this info.  If this doesn't already exist one of the moderators should make a section specifically for noobs detailing all the things we'd need to know so then we'd eventually be able to get in on the big boy conversations.  Any help would be much appreciated.

The DAK

[BigAl5150]

Originally Posted by The DAK

Hey all, I'm fairly new to the game in the sense that I've taken a long break since '03.  Back then I had a basic set of clubs that I bought at a sporting goods store that was perfect for me since I would normally shoot over 100 anyway.  I'm finally in a position financially along with time that I can get back into the game more consistently and learn all the details I never had the time to get into before.  The problem is that I don't even know what I don't know yet.

What I'd like to know from all you veterans and experts is if there is a section of this forum board that dedicates itself to people like myself who need things broken down potato head style.  I've made sections on several other forums to help people out with basic stuff that is talked about a lot but isn't understood fully...most notably on football boards explaining what a 3-technique is versus a 5-technique or what it means when somebody is running a post route or what a nickel or dime package is.  Some people know this stuff and some people have no clue.

I have a laundry list of questions and things I want to learn, but I know how annoying it can be for people to ask the same questions over and over on a board when it's already been discussed a million times, so I'd like to know if you all have any suggestions of threads or sections on this board that I can go to to learn what I need to know.  I'll list some of the things I'm interested in below and maybe some people can fill in some gaps of things I've missed.

- What are the parts of the club.  Is it as basic as the grip, the shaft and the head or are there other parts in more detail?

- Looking at club materials I see a lot of fancy wording and while it sounds cool I have no idea what is best.  I see steel, graphite, forged steel or forged composite etc.  I was talking to a buddy of mine at work who sees himself as a bit of a golf guru and he was telling me that irons are best if the shaft is steel since the stiffness of the club will keep your shot more accurate and for woods a lot of people like the graphite because they flex more thus helping with distance.  All that sounded great until I saw on the sites that each club has preferences for purchase for the stiffness levels of the shafts.  If you choose a stiff shaft does that automatically mean you're getting a steel shaft and if you choose a flexible one does that mean it's going to be graphite or is my buddy at work full of it?

- Looking at the sites I see sections for custom shafts along with all the options and specs to choose from.  Is there any difference in quality between an Aldila, Mitsubishi Rayon, Fujikura, Graphite Design, Graffaloy, Matrix or UST or is it just preference in looks or something?  In the FLEX section they have the easy to understand wording like regular, stiff, x-stiff etc. but then there are the numbers like 60, 65, 70 etc...what does that mean?  In the WEIGHT section they have numbered ranges from 50-80 or so.  Are these just ratings on some random scale I don't understand or are they a measurement of grams or what?  In the TORQUE section that's also somewhat self explanatory, but is there a certain preference a relatively inexperienced golfer should go toward?  They rate them from low to medium to high.  I'm assuming a high torque allows for farther distance but may be more difficult to control?!?!  And lastly there's the KICKPOINT.  I'm guessing that is the point of the shaft where the apex of the flex happens whether it be high, mid or low.  What is the difference between the three and why does it matter?

- Since there are quite a few options to choose from with shafts I'm assuming there are just as many, or more, options with heads.  I don't see it listed anywhere but do they have similar types of description categories (flex, weight, torque, kickpoint) like the shafts do that I described above?...I'm assuming different drivers like the Callaway Diablo Octane are going to have different component heads than the RAZR Hawk, but what are the major differences?  I don't see them listed in a breakdown of ratings like the shafts.  They basically just say that they're made out of some kind of material and they go 8 yards farther than this other club.  If I don't know what the differences are how am I supposed to figure out which one I want?

- I'm getting a new set from a sporting goods store to start out with but eventually plan to get fitted when I feel I've become consistent enough to make it worthwhile.  I've read on other threads that going to a box store to get fitted is worthless, but is a place like Golf USA considered a box store or would a place like that be just as good as going to a course and getting fitted by a pro shop?

- When I do get fitted what is the process that I should expect?  Will they fit me for an entire set or just woods or just irons?  Is there a standard flow that each fitting follows or does every place do it differently?  Should I expect every place to go into minute detail as far as having me hit every single club with multiple shafts, multiple heads, multiple grips etc. and if the place doesn't go into that much detail with me am I being taken for a ride?  No matter what the outcome of my fitting should I expect the fitter to build my clubs from scratch or order them from the dealer based on the specs he recommends or is it likely that they'd have the inventory to fit my specific needs?  I'm leary of going through the motions and then them just saying I need one off the shelf thus wasting my time.

- I know every golfer is going to have their own opinion of what company makes the best clubs and each club is going to fit somebody differently than somebody else so it's a stupid question to just randomly ask what the best golf clubs are like I see on here from time to time, but from looking at each website from TM to Nike to Cleveland to Callaway to Cobra etc. I was most impressed with Callaway in that it seemed to really go into detail on each club telling you what it has and what it does.  Should I take anything from that in the sense that it's a better quality club or is it just marketing flub where they decided to really jazz their site up more than others?  And speaking of what company is better quality than another is there really any of the major companies that are better than the other or are they so close because of the technology that they all use that it's six in one and a half dozen in the other?

-  Since I've leaned toward Callaway for the quality and ease of the website along with the looks of the clubs I'm curious about a few of their clubs.  Speaking specifically to just woods to start how do I really find the difference between the Diablo versus the RAZR Hawk, or the RAZR X or RAZR X Tour etc.  I've read all the details but have no clue what I'm reading.  I know some of them have various loft angles depending on how high you want to hit it or it's weighted depending on whether you have a draw or a fade naturally in your swing, but looking at the spec sheet they have various percentages and numbers for shafts and heads and even grips.  One would say since I don't know what all these things mean I have no business buying one of these high priced clubs.  I'd agree and that's why I'm wanting to learn.  My buddy at work also suggested that I stayed away from closed or open faces that help with hooks or slices because once I get better and if my swing corrects itself I may have an offset problem.  Is that something people have ever dealt with or if they naturally have a slice and get a closed face would they normally keep that swing since they appear to be hitting it straight regularly?

- I went into a place to talk to a guy briefly about getting fitted and I told him which clubs I was interested in and he did say that I should hit various types of clubs because maybe the club I want just doesn't fit me well at all.  If there's a specific company I'd like to stick with is it possible to change shaft length and flex along with the grip or head among other changes to make a club fit me or is it possible that a Callaway club or Nike or Ping etc. just is impossible to be a good fit no matter how much tinkering they do?

There are a million other things I'm wanting to know, but this post has already gotten out of hand.  I just need some guidence on where to go on this site to find out this info.  If this doesn't already exist one of the moderators should make a section specifically for noobs detailing all the things we'd need to know so then we'd eventually be able to get in on the big boy conversations.  Any help would be much appreciated.

The DAK

First off, welcome to The Sand Trap! Second, nice manifesto. :)

Parts of a club: head, shaft, grip. The head has a back, face, sole, and hosel. More golf terms: http://thesandtrap.com/wiki/big-list-of-golf-terminology

As for your more technical questions about shaft flex, materials used, etc: http://thesandtrap.com/b/bag_drop/getting_fit_part_1 should help out a bit.

This is just my opinion but I would find out who the best clubfitter is in your area and have a fitting session. That will help with a lot of the terminology and you will have a better idea of what exactly it is you are looking for. A good list to search from is here: http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/2011-02/clubfitters-listing.

The search bar can you be your friend as well if you want to find a review or others opinions of certain clubs. Our forum area for equipment is here: http://thesandtrap.com/forum/list/8/clubs-grips-shafts-fitting

Don't hesitate to ask questions, we're here to help!

[WUTiger]

For lessons on golf club structure and how the components work, check out this site by club designer Ralph Maltby. Among other things, Ralph runs the GolfWorks schools which train club makers and club fitters. He also answers specific questions people have about their personal golf clubs.

http://www.ralphmaltby.com/

Also, this is a good time of year to find a golf clinic. You and other beginners can learn together one or two nights a week. For now, you might want to keep your current clubs until you get some lessons and your swing stabilizes a little.

[The DAK]

Thanks to both of you for the helpful tips.  I'd like to apologize for the obnoxiously long post.  I didn't realize it was that long until after I'd posted it (I should have used that handy preview tool).  I went back and tried to edit it for ease of reading, but didn't see that option.

I went to Sports Authority today and got myself set up with a basic starter set from Tommy Armour and that should do me well while I get my swing back.  Hopefully within the next two years I can feel comfortable and consistent enough to make a fitting worthwhile.  I've also looked into several local (10 minutes distance) courses and talked to their pros about classes and I'm looking forward to that.  Also, since my work schedule leaves me the weekdays off I've found some killer deals on weekday unlimited holes green fees.  $21 after 3pm...can't beat that.

I've already scoured the search page and figured out some answers to several of the questions I asked, but many of them are still a mystery.  Maybe I should take a question or two from my original post and make a specific thread about it to get more activity if I can't find the answers in the search page.

Thanks again guys.

The DAK

[The DAK]

Originally Posted by BigAl5150

First off, welcome to The Sand Trap! Second, nice manifesto. :)

Parts of a club: head, shaft, grip. The head has a back, face, sole, and hosel. More golf terms: http://thesandtrap.com/wiki/big-list-of-golf-terminology

As for your more technical questions about shaft flex, materials used, etc: http://thesandtrap.com/b/bag_drop/getting_fit_part_1 should help out a bit.

This is just my opinion but I would find out who the best clubfitter is in your area and have a fitting session. That will help with a lot of the terminology and you will have a better idea of what exactly it is you are looking for. A good list to search from is here: http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/2011-02/clubfitters-listing.

The search bar can you be your friend as well if you want to find a review or others opinions of certain clubs. Our forum area for equipment is here: http://thesandtrap.com/forum/list/8/clubs-grips-shafts-fitting

Don't hesitate to ask questions, we're here to help!

Hey BigAl, thanks for the info.  I tried clicking on your third suggested website from golf digest and it said the page had moved.  At least it gave me a mulligan, which was nice of them.  I'm curious if you know where it went or have a suggestion for a different one.  Thanks again for your help.

The DAK

[ZEUS]

WELCOME BACK TO THE GAME AND GOOD LUCK!