My Swing (Iwanttobreak100)

[Iwanttobreak100]

Hello,

I have a huge problem where when the club reaches the top of my backswing I start to dip forward during my transition down and this causes me to automatically swing from outside in (over the top). Does anyone have any good tips to prevent this? I attached a video of my swing (sorry for it being dark, overcast morning) that shows how I start to dip forward (towards the ground) at the top of my backswing.

Thanks in advance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB_t2Gd4obg

A few things I have tried that have helped a bit, one tip was to curl my toes before i swing to make sure I'm not leaning to forward. I used to lean in during my backswing but I was able to fix that, but now I just can't stop myself from leaning forward before I start my transition down.

[uttexas]

Your swing is very armsy.  The lower body needs to initiate the downswing.

Work on the following

1:  Turn your shoulders in the backswing (keeping the arms more passive)

2.  Keep the connection of your right arm to your torso during the entire swing

3.  Initiate the downswing with your hips and legs

[Iwanttobreak100]

Thanks for your response.

The sad part is, I know all this and can especially feel a correct swing when I do the drill of swinging with my feet together. I actually almost hit the ball as far as I do with my feet together with my 7 iron as I do in my normal stance. I just can't for some reason get over the mental block of starting with my lower body first.

[LankyLefty]

I would just slow it down a bit and when you get to the top of the back swing dont even move you arms or hands until you start leading with the back shoulder and hip. That's how I got a feel for it, I'm not consistent yet but once you get a feel for starting the downswing in that back shoulder and hip its a lot easier to tell when your not doing it.

[uttexas]

Originally Posted by Iwanttobreak100

Thanks for your response.

The sad part is, I know all this and can especially feel a correct swing when I do the drill of swinging with my feet together. I actually almost hit the ball as far as I do with my feet together with my 7 iron as I do in my normal stance. I just can't for some reason get over the mental block of starting with my lower body first.

If it's a mental block, exaggerate the correction.  Make golf swings by holding your arms at the top of the backswing position for as long as you can.  Make your normal backswing, then hold your arms at the top.  Fire your hips and legs forward while holding your arms at the top.  Make some swings like Hogan in the video I posted, with firing the hips and legs and keeping the arms at the top position.  Once you get the feel for firing the hips/legs first, then start making downswings with your arms again.

[tshapiro]

After having a swing that looked like yours for over a decade, here is what converted my swing to one that is envied: - totally relax your right arm - keep your head still and level - use your left hand to steer the club head squarely into the ball - this should be your main focus. - your second point of focus is to ensure your right hip is ahead of your left hand throughout the downswing sequence. It may not be literally ahead, but from a sequencing standpoint it always feels ahead. - swing slow and rhythmically so that you have enough time to feel your right hip taking the lead in the downswing Here are some key background points, just don't think about them during the swing: Leading with your right hip and steering a square club face with your left hand will enable you to rhythmically power with your mid section. So the main point with this is that none of the thoughts bulleted above are power moves. Rather, they are sequence and position moves that will enable you to discover how to power with your mid section. As you get familiar with how a leading right hip (leading ahead of your left hand) puts your mid section in a powerful position, that dip you mention will go away on it's own because you will be focused on getting that powerful mid section into position rather than striking the ball with power from your arms which is what you are doing now. Also, I like to use the right hip and left hand as reference points for people learning to swing because they are the furthest points in the swing mechanics. So it makes it the easiest way to build torque with your body. An advanced golfer with great flexibility may need different reference points and concepts as to not have too much body action resulting in a hook - which is definitely not your struggle right now. Also, when you start powering with your mid section, your left hand will free up to use it's fine motor skills to make good ball contact. I'm sure your ball contact must be erratic with all that powering with your arms. Trouble shooting- if when using this method you find you are having a terrible slice or shanking then you need to add to your thoughts the 1/4 turn close of your left forearm during the downswing so that you bring the club face in square at impact. Do this by using the back of your left hand as the reference for your turn position Also remember to gradually build speed in the downswing and don't yank from the top - relaxed hands and rhythmic transition will help here. I have my swing down to a science... Every one of those bullets listed are critical. If any one of them is over looked you will have problems. Good luck with it.

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by tshapiro

After having a swing that looked like yours for over a decade, here is what converted my swing to one that is envied:

video?

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by tshapiro

- use your left hand to steer the club head squarely into the ball - this should be your main focus.

What?

[LankyLefty]

I don't know too much but even I have to agree with moparman on this. "Steering" with your hands is bad news. If done correctly you will be able to use your body as a pivot to return to the ball into contact and there will be no steering involved. Hands and arms are inaccurate and lead to mishits so "steering" with them is about the last thing you want to do.

And while I may not be the right person to say this as Im worse but I will anyway... If you swing was down to a "science" shouldn't you be shooting lower then +15?

[tshapiro]

What mean by steering is to have awareness of your club face angle and to ensure that it is closing in the downswing to the point that it is square at impact. A lot of people let their upper body drift forward ahead of the ball and pull with their arms so that the club face is open at impact. Focusing on ensuring it has closed up will force you to keep your upper body still while your hips rotate and move forward during the downswing. I also do advocate that the power comes from the mid section not the left hand. Awareness of your club face angle is very important for all aspects of the game - especially thrall important short game.

[Iwanttobreak100]

Thanks for the tips, I'm going to try them all of them on the range. I think the initial tip about my right elbow staying close is something that I always forget to practice as well.

[moparman426]

Just don't try too many changes all in one shot, it usually leads to frustration.  Pick a tip or two and focus on those until you get them down, then move onto something else.  Think of the club as an extension of your arm, not your hand.  Your hand is just the connection.

[tshapiro]

I don't know too much but even I have to agree with moparman on this. "Steering" with your hands is bad news. If done correctly you will be able to use your body as a pivot to return to the ball into contact and there will be no steering involved. Hands and arms are inaccurate and lead to mishits so "steering" with them is about the last thing you want to do.

And while I may not be the right person to say this as Im worse but I will anyway... If you swing was down to a "science" shouldn't you be shooting lower then +15?

Start shooting in the 80's on a regular basis and get back to me.

[Iwanttobreak100]

I ended up having to do this, I went in thinking about to many things and then just decided to focus on keeping my right elbow in. That helped a ton and then I would try to move on and try to start with my hips and then I would forget about my elbow! So instead I just figured I would concentrate on my right elbow, keeping it in and trying to relax my arms. It helped my swing a lot so I just need to get that down pat and then focus on my weight shift.

Thanks for the help and keep them coming!

Originally Posted by moparman426

Just don't try too many changes all in one shot, it usually leads to frustration.  Pick a tip or two and focus on those until you get them down, then move onto something else.  Think of the club as an extension of your arm, not your hand.  Your hand is just the connection.

[tshapiro]

In my thinking there is just 1 way to swing a golf club but endless ways to describe it. It's like trying to teach someone to whistle. Of the 50 or so books I have read on the golf swing, I can tell you that Ernie Els' primary swing thought is keeping his right elbow in to initiate the downswing... Page 41 of How To Build a Classic Golf Swing by Ernie Els. Nick Faldo is also a right arm/hand thinker. So, you might enjoy writings by those guys. Right arm thinking just kills my swing after about 5-10 swings but it works for The Big Easy so maybe it will work for you too. Bobby Jones and Jack Nicklaus were left side thinkers. What's funny is that many classic writings on the golf swing such as Hogan, Bobby Jones, Ernie Els at times seem to be absolutely contradictory. Now that I can swing by feel just as if I were throwing a football, I can see where each of them was coming from. They were all describing the same swing, just describing it differently.

[moparman426]

Ok, I have to ask.  When you stated:

Originally Posted by tshapiro

I can tell you that Ernie Els' primary swing thought is keeping his right elbow in to initiate the downswing...

Are you implying that he starts his downswing with his arms and not his lower body?  The following video shows otherwise, as he starts his downswing with his hips.

Or did you mean to say " before he initiates his downswing " ?  Huge difference.

[tshapiro]

Ok, I have to ask.  When you stated:

Are you implying that he starts his downswing with his arms and not his lower body?  The following video shows otherwise, as he starts his downswing with his hips.

Or did you mean to say " before he initiates his downswing " ?  Huge difference.

You have misread what I posted. I did not say that he did anything. I just referenced his writing where he says his primary thought to initiate the downswing is to drop the right elbow into the body. I don't need to watch your video to know that his down swing actually starts with a slight shift of weight forward followed by the hips leading the way because that's what virtually all pro golfers do and in addition I've watched video of him swinging in slow motion over 500 times in addition to reading his book, full of swing stills, more than 20 times. The thing is, he is so incredibly coiled at the top and his mechanics are so perfect that a lot of things happen as a natural chain reaction to what he has set in his backswing. The elbow down into the body is just the swing thought he says he needs to get it all going back down on the proper plane. Michelle Wie has mechanics and timing almost identical to him so if you like his swing she is just a prettier version of the same thing :-) Another point, Hogan said he initiated his downswing with the hips when it has been clearly proven that his downswing initiated with a slight weight shift. So, swing thoughts and what you actually do are not always the same. Same with Sean O'Haire, who says he keeps his weight centered when clearly it shifts forward to initiate the downswing. So, obviously, the weight shift is often a result of a good setup, use of the right leg, and backswing - not a conscience thought. For me, I'm aware of it and it is the center timing point for all other things in my swing revolve around. but, clearly that is not the awareness or swing thought many pros have... But it works for me. On page 126 of his book, Ernie does dedicate 2 pages to how he thinks about weight shift. In my opinion, he's got it slightly wrong when he says the weight flows with the swing. I believe that's how he thinks about it. But, the physics throughout the swing would tell you that the weight needs to slightly lead in the downswing to be in the proper place at impact.