Purchased a fake putter!

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

I'd be happier with a fake Tag/Omega/Rolex for £50 than I would a real one for £500 as it will look nice and tell the time.

But that's not why peple buy fake watches and, frequently putters.

With the watch, you are not looking for something to tell the time.You are pretending that you own something which others perceive to be of high value. It is dishonest, and says a lot about the wearer. There are few things more crass than a fake high end watch, no matter how good it might look. There are plenty of "homage" as opposed to replica watches around that are inexpensive and look great.

The SC Newport is a Ping Anser "homage" anyway, as are a hundred other putters.

With fake SC putters, which are obviously fake because of the price, the person doesn't say - "Hey, it's cheap and if it feels OK, great."
They buy them because they think there is some cachet with SC putters and dishonestly want others to think they own something desireable.

Never mind that you can buy dozens of genuine putters that are seriously good for less than the fake. Have you seen the prices of new Odyssey Black Tour Designs putters on ebay? Unbelievable - and these are AWESOME putters. Certainly the equal (at least) of any SC putter.

The other thing is that YOU know it's fake, even if your  friends can't and deep down, you'll hate yourself for it. Says a lot about a person.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by glock35ipsc

Affordability isn't the issue.  Similar is totally different to a fake.  One is made to LOOK similar, usually with a similar name, and marketed as such.

The other is a blatant attempt to fool the buyer into thinking they are getting the genuine product at a "discounted price".

Conning people isn't always the same as selling fake goods. They *can* be but don't have to be. Conning someone is not on, whether it's because of a fake, a scam, lies or whatever whereas selling something that's obviously not the real thing isn't a big deal to me.

Originally Posted by Shorty

But that's not why peple buy fake watches and, frequently putters.

With the watch, you are not looking for something to tell the time.You are pretending that you own something which others perceive to be of high value. It is dishonest, and says a lot about the wearer. There are few things more crass than a fake high end watch, no matter how good it might look. There are plenty of "homage" as opposed to replica watches around that are inexpensive and look great.

The SC Newport is a Ping Anser "homage" anyway, as are a hundred other putters.

With fake SC putters, which are obviously fake because of the price, the person doesn't say - "Hey, it's cheap and if it feels OK, great."

They buy them because they think there is some cachet with SC putters and dishonestly want others to think they own something desireable.

Never mind that you can buy dozens of genuine putters that are seriously good for less than the fake. Have you seen the prices of new Odyssey Black Tour Designs putters on ebay? Unbelievable - and these are AWESOME putters. Certainly the equal (at least) of any SC putter.

The other thing is that YOU know it's fake, even if your  friends can't and deep down, you'll hate yourself for it. Says a lot about a person.

/respectfully disagree.

I absolutely LOVE the Omega Double Eagle watch. It's one of the only watches I've seen in absolute years that I really really love the design of and I don't care if it's manufactured by Omega or Toys R Us; I love it and if it was affordable I'd buy it. Omega sell the watch at £3000 so for me if I find somewhere selling a watch that looks just as good and it's affordable I'll buy it and I'll wear it and it'll be for nobody's benefit but my own. That's provable by the fact that the only places I go out are to the course, where I normally play golf solo or to family and friends' houses; I rarely go out to pubs, never to clubs and generally am a bit of an introvert.

I do know that a lot of people buy fake stuff for the bravado of saying "I have a Rolex" or whatever but those people are quite frankly lacking something in their life if they need to try and be someone they're not. Not everyone buys fake products to try and make out they're real; some of us simply can't warrant three thousand pounds for a timepiece.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

Ah so what you're saying here is that unless somebody can afford an original of whatever product it is, they shouldn't be allowed to have something similar? A fake by all counts is similar but not the same, else it would cost the same to manufacture and then wouldn't be able to be sold cheaper.

Nope... not what I'm saying at all... There is a BIG difference between a fake and something similar.  If somebody is in a position that they want a new putter but can't afford a real Scotty they could go with a cheaper model by Odyssey, Ping, TaylorMade, etc.; or if those are too much they could step down another notch and buy a cheap $20 putter from Wal-Mart... all of those would be authentic putters that would be similar and legit.  A fake is crap because they try to fool consumers into thinking they are getting the real thing when they are not and just because you may be onto their game (or think you are) doesn't mean that others are or that you should support them.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Nope... not what I'm saying at all... There is a BIG difference between a fake and something similar.  If somebody is in a position that they want a new putter but can't afford a real Scotty they could go with a cheaper model by Odyssey, Ping, TaylorMade, etc.; or if those are too much they could step down another notch and buy a cheap $20 putter from Wal-Mart... all of those would be authentic putters that would be similar and legit.  A fake is crap because they try to fool consumers into thinking they are getting the real thing when they are not and just because you may be onto their game (or think you are) doesn't mean that others are or that you should support them.

See Post 20. Just because a fake product is created it doesn't necessarily mean the idea of the fake is to con people. Yes some people will try to con others into thinking it's real but that's down to the person selling it, not the person who created it. As I said above there are countries where copyright laws are non-existent and fakes are sold alongside real items, just at half the price in legitimate shops who are allowed to sell them. People who shop in those stores know exactly what they're buying, therefore there is no con involved in the sale of that fake item.

[newtogolf]

While you might have bought the watch because you like the way it looks and not because it's an Omega I'm sure you could find a watch from Timex, Citizen, Seiko or some other legit manufacturer that looks close enough in design.  When you buy from street vendors and fake manufactureres you are showing support for a business that has no respec for other businesses copyrights, trademarks and patents.  You might tell people that ask it's a fake but many others will see it and if they don't know you just assume it's real.  I'd be pissed if I got mugged or shot for a fake watch.

There are numerous anser style putters in the market that range in price from $35 and up.  When you intentionally buy a fake Scotty off a website sight unseen I consider it posing as the quality of the putter is likely the same as a $40 no name putter.  No way we should support these companies that sell fake products.

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

/respectfully disagree.

I absolutely LOVE the Omega Double Eagle watch. It's one of the only watches I've seen in absolute years that I really really love the design of and I don't care if it's manufactured by Omega or Toys R Us; I love it and if it was affordable I'd buy it. Omega sell the watch at £3000 so for me if I find somewhere selling a watch that looks just as good and it's affordable I'll buy it and I'll wear it and it'll be for nobody's benefit but my own. That's provable by the fact that the only places I go out are to the course, where I normally play golf solo or to family and friends' houses; I rarely go out to pubs, never to clubs and generally am a bit of an introvert.

I do know that a lot of people buy fake stuff for the bravado of saying "I have a Rolex" or whatever but those people are quite frankly lacking something in their life if they need to try and be someone they're not. Not everyone buys fake products to try and make out they're real; some of us simply can't warrant three thousand pounds for a timepiece.

[MiniBlueDragon]

While you might have bought the watch because you like the way it looks and not because it's an Omega I'm sure you could find a watch from Timex, Citizen, Seiko or some other legit manufacturer that looks close enough in design

I spent a lot of time looking at watches after I saw that watch and I did find a similar one by Guess which I bought for £100ish but the strap seal around the face broke after an hour of wearing it at home. I took it back for a replacement and the same thing happened again and was then declared a design fault so it was refunded. I've not found anything else similar. :-( I do get the argument that if there are no buyers there are no fakes created and that's fine for those who can buy what they have the cash to afford; I just think those who want a specific item but can't warrant the expense should have the option to buy a cheap and often nasty alternative. Incidentally I own nothing fake at all and as mentioned I buy nothing at all second hand; I jus think people shoud have choices.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

See Post 20.

Just because a fake product is created it doesn't necessarily mean the idea of the fake is to con people. Yes some people will try to con others into thinking it's real but that's down to the person selling it, not the person who created it.

As I said above there are countries where copyright laws are non-existent and fakes are sold alongside real items, just at half the price in legitimate shops who are allowed to sell them. People who shop in those stores know exactly what they're buying, therefore there is no con involved in the sale of that fake item.

No.  A fake or counterfeit is created with the sole purpose of being passed on as the real thing... that is why they go through all of the trouble of making it look as close to identical as possible.

Like I've said before there is a major difference between fakes/counterfeits and what I would call knock-offs.  As an example, GigaGolf sells knock offs... a lot of their clubs look similar to clubs sold by TaylorMade or Ping.  It is obvious that they are copying them but they have different names (for instance, I believe their Burner knock-off is called the Inferno) and are obviously not the real thing.  A counterfeit club is made to look identical with the same exact branding/engraving/paint so that the consumer believes that it is the real deal.  In the case where counterfeits are sold along side the real deal at cheaper prices, its for people to buy and take so they can pretend to all of their friends that they have something nice or expensive; so while the consumer wasn't conned they use it to "con" their friends and look cool.

And like I said before, it's not all about being conned... if you know that an item isn't real, you shouldn't buy it... there is no good reason to support a counterfeiter. Period.

[newtogolf]

They should have choices but one choice should not be a fake or counterfeit items.  People invested their time and money to build a business, design their products and develop a sales strategy to sell them.  They are entitled to reap the rewards of their efforts and be protected from cheap overseas manufacturing houses that want to duplicate the look of their product, use their name and trademark and sell it at a fraction of the cost.  As someone in the IT field I'd think you'd be more sensitive to pirating and other illegal activities that take money out of the pockets of businesses that make the investment to develop a product.

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

Incidentally I own nothing fake at all and as mentioned I buy nothing at all second hand; I jus think people shoud have choices.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

They should have choices but one choice should not be a fake or counterfeit items.  People invested their time and money to build a business, design their products and develop a sales strategy to sell them.  They are entitled to reap the rewards of their efforts and be protected from cheap overseas manufacturing houses that want to duplicate the look of their product, use their name and trademark and sell it at a fraction of the cost.  As someone in the IT field I'd think you'd be more sensitive to pirating and other illegal activities that take money out of the pockets of businesses that make the investment to develop a product.

Beat me to it.

[newtogolf]

Exactly right most people would not buy a Rolex look-alike if it didn't say Rolex on it.  The chinese use expensive brands like Rolex, Scotty Cameron, Titleist because they know people want to buy them but many can't afford them.  Some knowingly accept it's a fake and choose to "pose" while others are fooled into thinking it's real and disappointed by the performance of it which affects the reputation of original manufacturer if they never find out it was a fake.

Originally Posted by tristanhilton85

No.  A fake or counterfeit is created with the sole purpose of being passed on as the real thing... that is why they go through all of the trouble of making it look as close to identical as possible.

Like I've said before there is a major difference between fakes/counterfeits and what I would call knock-offs.  As an example, GigaGolf sells knock offs... a lot of their clubs look similar to clubs sold by TaylorMade or Ping.  It is obvious that they are copying them but they have different names (for instance, I believe their Burner knock-off is called the Inferno) and are obviously not the real thing.  A counterfeit club is made to look identical with the same exact branding/engraving/paint so that the consumer believes that it is the real deal.  In the case where counterfeits are sold along side the real deal at cheaper prices, its for people to buy and take so they can pretend to all of their friends that they have something nice or expensive; so while the consumer wasn't conned they use it to "con" their friends and look cool.

And like I said before, it's not all about being conned... if you know that an item isn't real, you shouldn't buy it... there is no good reason to support a counterfeiter. Period.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Large corporations spent millions on R&D; for a product. They then manufacture, release and advertise it and in return they make masses of profit from legitimate buyers like you and I who want original products, new products or products we know to be of a high quality. We would likely not buy a fake/counterfeit/knock-off or any other type of non-original version of a product we like. We are in effect the target demographic of these large corporations.

The little countries that decide to create fake versions of large companies products are not aiming at us as a demographic, they're aiming at those people who can't afford or are unwilling to pay for the original product and as such their release of dodgy copies of products will make no impact whatsoever on the sales of the large corporations. They have an entirely different target demographic.

Yes I work in software and I'm fully aware of licensing laws, copyright, plagiarism etc. The difference here though is that with software nobody will create a cheap, crappy version of a product like MS Office and then name it MS Office and sell it at half the price because the time and effort involved in creating it will far outweigh the potential profit. If you're talking about copying installation disks (and supposing a license could be used multiple times) then that too is a different situation to fake Scotty putters as it's a replica of the original software, not a blatantly cheap/crap alternative that's being sold; it's akin to someone buying the manufacture process used by Titleist and making actual Scotties and selling them at discount which would affect Titleist's profit.

As mentioned before, being conned by someone selling a cheap, nasty copy as an authentic product is a different matter altogether; that's part and parcel of everything in life that could potentially be used for nefarious purposes, whether it's fake goods or religion and has no bearing on the person who creates the product (which could even be a legal copy) or the person who wrote The Book.

[evan01]

Could you be s kind as to describe in golf speak what motor boating a pair of boobs is. Do they have to be a specific size?

[Spyder]

Like it was stated before. If it was a known "clone" that does not share a false name (a fake Scotty Cameron putter that actually says Scotty Cameron on it and is passed off as if it is legit) then that is fine. Purchasing a known counterfeit club though is definitely not a good idea. A clone is one thing but a counterfeit is a totally different ball game.

Clones obviously share a common design, but use a different name. A callaway clone example would be to google search "Integra Extreme 2.0 irons". These appear to be identical to the Callaway X-20's but they do not say Callaway on them. These are clones, not counterfeits. The same foundry that produces the X-20 for Callaway is producing lower-cost models designed after the X-20 and labeling them with a name (eXtreme in this case) and selling lower cost heads to club makers. I have also been physically shown that a clone will often be made of the same exact materials as well. The significant difference in cost is due to having absolutely no marketing, no sponsoring, no research and development and no big name labeled on the club (this is the same concept as Nike's being made for pennies and being sold for benjamins).

[18thbunker]

Very well stated.

I respect copyright laws. I refrain copying 'software' as the original is too expensive. If I can not afford it, I will not own it.

As I said previously, these internet sellers selling a high profile high price item for much much less that suggested price ------ dead giveaway you are buying a fake. What gets me is the folks who purchase these items seem surprised when they find out it is a fake.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

They should have choices but one choice should not be a fake or counterfeit items.  People invested their time and money to build a business, design their products and develop a sales strategy to sell them.  They are entitled to reap the rewards of their efforts and be protected from cheap overseas manufacturing houses that want to duplicate the look of their product, use their name and trademark and sell it at a fraction of the cost.  As someone in the IT field I'd think you'd be more sensitive to pirating and other illegal activities that take money out of the pockets of businesses that make the investment to develop a product.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

The little countries that decide to create fake versions of large companies products are not aiming at us as a demographic, they're aiming at those people who can't afford or are unwilling to pay for the original product and as such their release of dodgy copies of products will make no impact whatsoever on the sales of the large corporations. They have an entirely different target demographic.

Little countries? Like China? And this coming from UK person, a country that has not created or manufactured almost anything since mid 1900's British Leyland... This was a sad joke, sorry.

So you say, that it is ok to make fake RR for poor people and market it as a real RR with less price, or Levi's jeans, or Scotty putters? If the target was totally different demographic audience, then why those big companies force to destroy hundreds of thousands of fake goods, close fake Apple stories etc. I really do not think those "little countries" are doing this just for the good of poor people.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Little countries? Like China? And this coming from UK person, a country that has not created or manufactured almost anything since mid 1900's British Leyland... This was a sad joke, sorry.

So you say, that it is ok to make fake RR for poor people and market it as a real RR with less price, or Levi's jeans, or Scotty putters? If the target was totally different demographic audience, then why those big companies force to destroy hundreds of thousands of fake goods, close fake Apple stories etc. I really do not think those "little countries" are doing this just for the good of poor people.

Please bother to read my previous posts. I have never said it's fine to market a fake as the real thing and had you bothered to read you'd know my view on conning people. 'Little countries' was a bad choice of words and nothing more; as you've rightly pointed out, I live in a little and often crap country myself so nothing was meant by it,

[Soon Yu]

Sir, please get off your high horse and realize that If someone likes a fake ,it is no ones business but their own. Let the buyer beware if they can't realize a fake. Name brand putters and most golf equipment are overpriced anyway. For whatever reason they do,you are sure to try to impress others yourself in one way or another. The whole world is buying substandard goods from China, that soon dissapoint or fall apart. Its called a global economy. Snobbery was invented by the Brits, keep it up!

[Jmdmbike]

Sir, please get off your high horse and realize that If someone likes a fake ,it is no ones business but their own. Let the buyer beware if they can't realize a fake. Name brand putters and most golf equipment are overpriced anyway. For whatever reason they do,you are sure to try to impress others yourself in one way or another. The whole world is buying substandard goods from China, that soon dissapoint or fall apart. Its called a global economy. Snobbery was invented by the Brits, keep it up!

Interesting take on the subject - your logic is unique for sure. The reality is that these manufacturers and sellers are trying to pass off fake equipment as the real thing. Perhaps they should include "These clubs are fake, which is why we can offer them to you at such incredible savings" on their websites, and see how many people would buy their products if they were advertised honestly. And that isn't even taking into account all of the intellectual property rules that are being broken by the manufacturers of fake equipment. It's the legitimate manufacturers who are investing in their products and improving them for all of us who are being ripped off - not just the person who buys these items.