Thrash Talk: Michelle Wie

[Thrash13]

Well, I guess I'll just start doing this every week, so I can get feedback from the guys and gals of the forum.

My Thrash Talk this week has to do with Michelle Wie playing on the PGA Tour without having to qualify. I weighed some of the positives and then some of the negatives. Finally, I just gave my final thoughts on the matter.

I would like for you all to give it a read if you haven't already and give me your opinions on the matter. I know as big as Wie is in the golf world right now, just about all golf fans have their opinions set in stone on her.

I'll be happy to debate a little for the people who disagree, as that's always a lot of fun.

Thanks.

[Putt4doh]

Sorry, no disagreement here. I'm with you and Mark Hensby 100%. I think the media has lost sight that golf is a PROFESSION for these guys...not a past time. About 140 guys on the PGA are fighting every week to earn enough money to keep their job. Is it really fair to hand out an exemption to someone who doesn't have a realistic shot placing in the serious money? Hey PNC Bank doesn't offer a spot in the Pirates batting order to boost attendance, do they?

If the media doesn't speak up and champion the cause of the 'rest of field' someone in the top ten should.

Vijay? You out there?

[Rafcin]

I'm a big fan of Michelle and can't wait for her to get into the age, that I can have her in my wet dreams without embarassment... But I'm not happy to see her play in PGA events w/o qualifing. She's talking spot away for somebody who's life depends on number of cuts made - and hoping every wednesday for that phone call from the PGA to take over a no-show spot.
Unfortunatelly it's all about money and as long she's drawing a crawd - it will happen over and over again.

[PGAfan790]

Good post Rafcin. Always enjoy readin you.

[Rafcin]

Good post Rafcin. Always enjoy readin you.

Admit, it's the avatar

[Peter_in_Atl]

I don't see why this is such a big deal. The exemptions are for anyone the sponsor wants to have play who is a scratch golfer. That can be a college kid (David Duval at the BellSouth), a club pro or Michele Wie.

[Rafcin]

I don't see why this is such a big deal...

It's about being realistic. When she's playing - she's drawing the crawd and

trying to make a cut. When a PGA Pro is playing, he's competing (or at least he has potential to compete). Her appearance it's all about publicity, nobody with any sense at all will think that she can really compete. So the spot, that means livelihood and chance to compete for "bottom of the barrel" PGA tour fighting to keep his card, goes to a kid who has no shot, but draws crawds. That's why it's a big deal. Of course - it's my opinion and I could be wrong.

[Rafcin]

by the way - Michelle is not a scratch golfer.
She's an index of +6 !!!

[Peter_in_Atl]

It's about being realistic. When she's playing - she's drawing the crawd and

Where were the complaints when Duval got an exemption to play the BellSouth while he was a GA Tech student? As far as publicity is concerned, the greater the amount of interest in a particular tournament, the greater the purse. What if the event decides to give the slot to one of the players of the Asain tour? That same bottom of the barrel PGA tour player still doesn't get in. What you are saying is Jack or Arnie shouldn't have played a PGA Tour event for the past 15+ years because we know they had no shot.

[Thrash13]

Where were the complaints when Duval got an exemption to play the BellSouth while he was a GA Tech student?

I wasn't watching golf at that time. I would have felt the same way I do about this.

What if the event decides to give the slot to one of the players of the Asain tour? That same bottom of the barrel PGA tour player still doesn't get in. What you are saying is Jack or Arnie shouldn't have played a PGA Tour event for the past 15+ years because we know they had no shot.

It's about paying your dues and earning respect. The Asian players can play, they have proved it time and time again. And Jack and Arnie have earned their respect to play in any tournament. Comparing this situation to them playing is silly if you ask me. It's not even the same parameter. Can you honestly say Michelle Wie has paid her dues and earned the right to play on the PGA Tour? Don't just answer to disagree, be honest with yourself.

[Peter_in_Atl]

It's about paying your dues and earning respect. The Asian players can play, they have proved it time and time again. And Jack and Arnie have earned their respect to play in any tournament. Comparing this situation to them playing is silly if you ask me. It's not even the same parameter.

Respect? That's a different argument. The argument has been, "She has no chance in winning. She's taking away a spot that should go to someone trying to make a living." I say that Arnie and Jack were doing the same thing.

[Rafcin]

Where were the complaints when Duval got an exemption to play the BellSouth while he was a GA Tech student?

Duval's result from BellSouth:

Finished: T13 , scores: 68 71 66 79 (-4) Except for the rookie-like blowup during the last round - he WAS in competition....

What if the event decides to give the slot to one of the players of the Asain tour? That same bottom of the barrel PGA tour player still doesn't get in.

Asian and Nationwide players are eligable to participate in PGA events. If they record indicate, that they're competitive - why not. Top Asian tour players might be better than 100+ ranked PGA player. They're professionals, not a media-gadgets...

What you are saying is Jack or Arnie shouldn't have played a PGA Tour event for the past 15+ years because we know they had no shot.

I'll make myself unpopular to many readers, but indeed - IMHO - if not exempt and didn't qualified - no, they shouldn't be invited.

[Peter_in_Atl]

Is the argument that she is taking a spot from a guy trying to earn a living? or
She isn't competitive?

You get the opportunity to use hindsight. If she's competitive, it's OK, but if she isn't, it's not?

If Wie makes the cut, by definition, isn't she competitive?

[Rafcin]

Is the argument that she is taking a spot from a guy trying to earn a living? or She isn't competitive?

What I ment is - it's is not OK to take away spot from a guy who is trying to earn a living and give it to somebody who is not competitive... it's not an "or"

You get the opportunity to use hindsight. If she's competitive, it's OK, but if she isn't, it's not?

Indeed. I don't have a problem with her playing at LPGA events, where she IS competitive, and femal golfers also are trying to make living...

If Wie makes the cut, by definition, isn't she competitive?

If you're looking for a black and white cut line - we can agree on that.

Again - if you look back on my posts - I tried to point out as often as possible "IMHO", "It's my opinion" etc, I'm starting to get a feeling you're taking it too personly and trying to convince me or talk me out of my point of view. We're all entitled to our own angle, aren't we? Let's agree to disagree

[Thrash13]

I'm saying she don't deserved to take a spot away from a guy trying to make a living from week to week unless she qualifies for that tourney.

If she qualifies for a tournament, then I will cheer her on to do good. But if she is just invited, then out with her and in with the hard working guys trying to make ends meet.

In my article, I said I don't care if she is male or female, you should have to earn your spot.

Rafcin, I do agree with a lot you have added as well. Nice stuff here. I love the debates.

[Peter_in_Atl]

Again - if you look back on my posts - I tried to point out as often as possible "IMHO", "It's my opinion" etc, I'm starting to get a feeling you're taking it too personly and trying to convince me or talk me out of my point of view. We're all entitled to our own angle, aren't we?

That's fine. It's certainly not personal. It's the nature of discussion boards. Tone doesn't come through like regular conversation. I'm originally from NY. We tend to be blunt. Besides, you have every right to be wrong.

[lightrider]

I think it really is about money and sponsors. The Sponsors are the ones who front the money for the tournament and the purses. Its the tournaments responsibility to draw attention to the event and to get as much exposure for its Sponsors as possible. They aren't putting a monkey or some other thing from left field out there, they are putting someone out there everyone wants to see and trying to publicized the game.

[PowerXSwing]

Well since I'm new here, I'll go ahead and muddy the water. I personally am tired of do gooders trying to prove women are the same as men. They're NOT. Never will be. That said, like Vijay said, Wie has no business playing on ANY men's tour without qualifying for it. Has she won on the LPGA tour? Or any woman's tour? NO! If she is so good she would surely dominate the LPGA, wouldn't you think? If she pays her money and gets through Q school, then she has earned the right to play. I spent years traveling the country with my kid on the AJGA junior tour. I've seen this before, pushy, wealthy parents trying to push little Johnny to the front of the pack. Yes she's good, but the next Tiger? LOL

I thought sponsor's exemptions were supposed to go to the player (man) that didn't have a exemption but showed the skills needed to play at PGA tour levels. You know what I mean, top college player, top amateur, nationwide player, gateway tour player. Common sense must apply here.

Same thing for Annika. She has dominated the LPGA, and that's quite an accomplishment. Wie hasn't proven she can play even at this level. In Annika's case it's different. She's earned the right to go to Q school. Yea, that's right. All her accomplishments mean precisely squat! They were achieved under a totally different standard, not PGA tour standard. When she goes to Q school and makes it, or monday qualifies, then I'll root for her. Why should you get to be the head chef at a restaurant, because you make the best burger at Wendys?

My son goes to Q school this fall, if he makes it or gets conditional status and gets bumped because Wie's daddy pulls some "strings" to get her in the field, you are going to here some class A screaming.

Yes my wife knows I talk like this.

Dan