Iron lengths

[Mordan]

Originally Posted by woltaire

I have three cleveland wedges.

The rest is Callaway X-Forged 2007 model all with 6.0 Project X shafts.

I even have a 2 iron of the Callaway Tour Forged model with a 6.5 Project X shaft. (got it for 20 bucks and thought it would be fun...)

This one goes about 200 meters (40 m roll included)...

I swing pretty fast and can generate some power...

Looking at me while I swing usually results in people saying that I swing fast...

Have a look at my usual swing rhythm:

I have the feeling that I could swing anything and it wouldn't change much...

You've got the ball back in your stance. Is that your typical ball position for hitting irons? If it is then you're going to struggle to hit the ball high with the lower lofted irons which will compress the gaps between the clubs.

You've got a nice swing but the numbers you posted at the beginning indicate to me that you're not getting everything out of it that you could.

[iHack]

From looking at your swing it looks like you release "the lag" early. In other words the fastest part of your swing is behind the ball. When you swing your club does the whoosh sound happen before or after you hit the club. If it happens before your not putting all your speed into impact. I'm a strong person and always had a fast swing. I could hit a 5 about 175-180 yards roughly. It was an athlete's swing. I took a lesson a month ago and if feels like I'm playing a different game since. I learned to hold my "lag" until impact. At impact it's like the club takes over rocketing my ball out towards my target. I now carry 190yards with 5 iron. My whoosh used to happen before before the ball but it was o loud I thought I was swing so fast, now the club just drops silently towards the ball and whips through the impact zone. That's just my experience with a fast swing vs an effective swing. I hope you don't take this negatively just my observation that could help you load those project X's

[iHack]

If you look at -0.01 on the video you will notice your completely unhinged already almost a foot before the ball, that loses so much power on your swing.

[woltaire]

On the video it's an 8 iron. I keep the shorter irons a bit back on my stance. The reason is that I noticed that I am falling behind the ball with my head. It was a simple way to keep away from hooking. With longer irons I go more forward. But hooking is a general problem for me...

By the way my 4 iron really flies high and still creates a draw shape. It's just that it is not as long as it should be...

What makes me think about the Project X 6.0 and if they are really wrong is, that on the video during impact the shaft is bent towards the target...

The swing was taken last season. I was able to reduce my overswinging this season. The idea of this is indead to create lag just in the latest moment of the impact. Maybe I take a new video tomorrow...

[MS256]

Originally Posted by woltaire

On the video it's an 8 iron. I keep the shorter irons a bit back on my stance. The reason is that I noticed that I am falling behind the ball with my head. It was a simple way to keep away from hooking. With longer irons I go more forward. But hooking is a general problem for me...

By the way my 4 iron really flies high and still creates a draw shape. It's just that it is not as long as it should be...

What makes me think about the Project X 6.0 and if they are really wrong is, that on the video during impact the shaft is bent towards the target...

The swing was taken last season. I was able to reduce my overswinging this season. The idea of this is indead to create lag just in the latest moment of the impact. Maybe I take a new video tomorrow...

http://thesandtrap.com/t/34727/shaft-flex-as-seen-on-camera-photos-or-video-rolling-shutter-illusion

You can't go by a picture to tell you about shaft flex. It's an illusion caused by the camera.

[pholmes]

Ms, I will read that thread. Thanks

[iHack]

Its not where the ball is positioned that I'm talking about its where your wrists are unhinged. The fasted past of your swing looks a foot before the ball. Your hitting the ball almost with follow through (hence the forward shaft bend) That is probably why you hook. Your early release starts your ball flight either down the line with a hard spin or to the left of target all togther. If you hold that hinge until impact your flight will start a little right and draw back on target. Try keeping those wrist hinged till point of impact while pointing the heel of your left hand right of the target line. That's the bet way I can describe my feeling of holding lag unil impact.

[woltaire]

There was a guy with AP2 irons and projectX 5.5 shafts on the range today.

I was about 10 meters longer with his 5 iron...

[woltaire]

I am going to make a complete fitting tomorrow afternoon.

Will post the results here.

Is there something that I have to know before they are going to fit me?

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by iHack

Its not where the ball is positioned that I'm talking about its where your wrists are unhinged. The fasted past of your swing looks a foot before the ball. Your hitting the ball almost with follow through (hence the forward shaft bend) That is probably why you hook. Your early release starts your ball flight either down the line with a hard spin or to the left of target all togther. If you hold that hinge until impact your flight will start a little right and draw back on target.

Try keeping those wrist hinged till point of impact while pointing the heel of your left hand right of the target line. That's the bet way I can describe my feeling of holding lag unil impact.

iHack has your fault nailed OP.

You're releasing early and loosing power. I have exactly the same problem and my distances with the longer irons is about the same. Do like he's telling you and try to increase your lag.

Good luck. Great posts iHack. Props given.

[woltaire]

Hey, thank you for all advice.

I went to a fitting yesterday and it took about 80 minutes.

Clubs tested were from Titleist, Mizuno, Ping etc.

Shafts tested were from ProjectX, KBS, Nippon...

Average clubheadspeed with an Iron 6 was 80 mph.

Mizuno dna resulted in shaftspecs of 3 5 4 9

The project x shafts 6.0 that I use make all kind of movement during the shot.

I have to work a lot in order to get them where I want...

We tried them on different heads and in best case they generated a linear line and simply didn't move at all...

Most harmonic and steady curve was with the Nippon 1150 stiff shaft + 0,5 inches.

Mizuno shaft optimizer recommended a Nippon 950 stiff shaft.

Best clubhead was a Mizuno JPX 825 pro.

I carried some six irons 160 meters with the JPX pro and the nippon shaft combination and had much higher spinrates.

Longest shot with that six iron was 172 meters...

[iHack]

I have 1st generation Jpx pro. Love them. Mizuno is such a nice iron. I'm a tech dork and love getting new clubs but I think I'll keep these Mizuno for years to come.

[iHack]

Good luck with the new purchae

[woltaire]

Thank you.

It is said that the 825 pro are a huge step forward from the 800 pro.

Maybe you can give them a try.

I especially liked the light weight with the nippon shaft.

What I don't like is that they again make the lofts stronger.

The 7 iron of the 825 has 33°.

In my opinion that's a step into the wrong side.

They should make clubsets with a PW starting from 52° again and reintroduce the 1 iron on the other far end.

[joekelly]

For our information: Ben Hogan in his book, Power Golf, gives a range of distances of his clubs. Eg. 4i regular 165, max 190, and min 155yrds.  7i, 135, 160, 125 and 9i, 115, 140 and 105.  So if you are getting 140 out of your 7i, you hit the ball as far as Hogan did 65 yrs ago.  What he might be doing today is anyone's guess.  But you can see that more distance alone may not be the answer to low scores.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by joekelly

For our information: Ben Hogan in his book, Power Golf, gives a range of distances of his clubs. Eg. 4i regular 165, max 190, and min 155yrds.  7i, 135, 160, 125 and 9i, 115, 140 and 105.  So if you are getting 140 out of your 7i, you hit the ball as far as Hogan did 65 yrs ago.  What he might be doing today is anyone's guess.  But you can see that more distance alone may not be the answer to low scores.

I agree with you that distance (expecially with irons) doesn't make a world of difference, although hitting higher shots from further away that land softer on firm greens does make a difference.

As far as Hogan's distances: Keep in mind that a 9 iron today has the same loft as a 7 iron even 30 years ago, so to compare Hogan's distances with modern clubs we would have to compare his 7 iron with our 9 iron.

Sells a lot of clubs when they can show us on a launch monitor that the new club they want to sell is longer than the one we have now. They usually forget to mention that the 6 iron on the new set has the same loft as the 5 iron on our old set. Any of us that are carrying a 3 iron are already carrying the same loft club as that 1 iron that Travino joked even God couldn't hit.

[woltaire]

Yes, that's exactly what I experienced on the flightscope.

I got the mizuno 825 pro clubhead in my hands and it was a wonderful feeling during impact and so on...

I instantly had about 10 meters more than before.

But the first thing that I wanted to know then was how much loft that six iron has.

And it came up that mizuno altered their lofts this year from 31° to 29° for the six iron...

The same for many other companies...

The result of this developement is that all the long irons will fall away in future...

No wonder that the hybrid market is continously growing...

And there will be need for a second gap wedge with 48°...

That's silly...

Instead of this a club making company should have the courage to reintroduce the old Ben Hogan club lofts and add some longer irons to their set.

Their fear is that nobody would buy those clubs, but I think that people are not stupid and will get more and more informed in future...