My Swing (The Phoenix)

[The Phoenix]

I've been Playing Golf for: 2 years

My current handicap index or average score is: 25

My typical ball flight is: inconsistent!

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: push slice

Help!  I have this push slice going on, and can't seem to get things straightened out.  I'm very inconsistent with it - sometimes, it seems to go fairly straight and just fade a bit.. other times, I really slice it bad.  Other times, I just shank it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  From looking at my swing, it seems my grip, stance, and takeaway are ok.  when I start the transition, I definitely end up with an out to in swing path.  But, what is causing it?  something in the hips?  The break on the wrist on the downswing?  I don't know.  I just started taking lessons, so I'm hoping that will start me down the right path to hit the fairways more regularly, but I am hoping someone here can give me some things to work on as well.... Thanks so much!

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Videos:

Straight on - regular speed

Straight on, slow mo:

Rear view, regular speed:

Rear view, slow motion:

[theworldengine]

Definitely ott. Need to practice laying off the shaft

[The Phoenix]

Thanks for responding!  I was beginning to wonder if anyone would...

Sorry for my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by "laying off the shaft"?  Do you mean holding back the hands until the hips and shoulders have gotten more turned back towards the target?  And, whatever it means, are there drills you can recommend to practice that?  Or is it just more of a feel thing?

[stb5089]

two main things I see is.

Your turn : keep that left side more stationary on the way back.  You are crushing your left side down in your backswing (kind of looks like you might of played some baseball in your lifetime). keep that more stationary.  Turn with your oblique and abdominal muscles.  This should feel like a winding up or coiling motion.

The next step is when you start the downswing start feeling your weight shifting to your left side immediately. In your video you left a lot of weight on your right side ( I can tell by your right foot). At the end of a good swing you should be able to pick your right foot off the ground and balance on your left.

If you practice this you should be more accurate and gain distance. good luck!

[The Phoenix]

Thanks for the feedback.....I really do appreciate it.

I think I see what you mean about my left side.... my left leg pokes out away from me when I'm just about at the transition....I think that might have to do with the fact that I'm not very flexible...especially my hips.

On the weight transfer, the first video, I see that too....my weight sort of stays back.  I wonder if this is partly because I'm trying to keep my head back, so it leads to the weight staying back as well - I'm confused on the weight transfer - I know my momentum should feel like it's pulling me forward (weight on front foot), but, then I'm worried about my head not staying behind the ball and getting too far forward.

I think I see a few other things now that I've had some time to look and compare..

1.  my stance seems a little too wide.  I think this hinders a proper turn and results in me having less mobility, leading to more of an outside-in path.

2.  ball position is a little far back, leading me to have to cut across to get solid contact (I guess that might be what some people mean by "steering" the club?)

3.  my takeaway seems pretty good (surprised my wrist is as straight as it is), but when I transition to the downswing, it seems like I just come out over the top.....I try to work on changing that at the range, but I just end up pushing it real bad...

4.  I'm not sure my initial move forward is proper - it seems like I lunge forward a bit.....

5.  With the lunge, I wonder if I'm moving forward too much or too early prior to impact.

6.  Overall, when I reach impact and follow through, it just looks like my arms are all in tight to my body....

my lesson the other night, the PGA pro had me open my left foot, tee the ball up low, and off the front toe, and work on closing the club face...after he left, I really started stroking a nice fade....not a slice or a push.... with a little less over the top motion, I think I can get that darn ball straighter and more consistent... - I was hitting my 6 iron and 3W really well...straight, almost no fade or slice...so, it seems I'm doing something different with the driver, or the added length is just magnifying some fault(s).

Any other thoughts?  I really would like to start hitting fairways...I hit a 47 on a fairly tough 9 sunday night, but, I end up scrambling so much from that slice - I know it could be so much better.... (that and 3 3-puts, but that's another story).

what a frustrating game....

[stb5089]

haha yes it can be a frustrating game.  This is the main thing I would work on.  Your setup looks very similar to the picture on the right. I think your setup should look like the pic on the left.  This spine tilt will allow your head to stay behind while shifting your weight to your left side.  Try this setup and then just practice getting onto your left side. This setup should make it a lot easier for that weight shift!  I could go into a lot of detail about the golf swing but i think if you focus on a few things at a time it will be beneficial for ya in the long run. I do notice the over the top motion as well.  The first fix should be just getting your left shoulder more square to your target (your left shoulder is slightly open). close that up and this will help you be more on plane. Hope this helps, best of luck to ya!

[The Phoenix]

I've seen this sort of picture quite a few times....and of course, feel like that's what I'm doing...even thought, I'm not...It looks to me like I'm pretty straight up 50-50 on weight distribution, but at least I have my left shoulder above my right.... need to open that up more like the picture you posted (obviously).

So a couple questions related to this setup...

1.  The rotation seems like it would be much further back from the ball like that....resulting in a swing path that starts to the inside and is heading upwards prior to impact... I presume you make up for that with a shift forward towards the target with the hips?

2.  The weight shift.....should that be happening early just after the transition from the top of the backswing, or a bit later as the club heads down toward impact?

3.  Is the weight shift more of a feel of pushing off the right leg, or just the result of the uncoiling of the body as you swing?  or both?

[stb5089]

you want a solid weight distrubition at setup. just tilt your spine more to your right (behind the ball)

1. This setup will allow your weight to be transferred to your left side and your hips going forward (to the hole).

2. Def at the transition. All the great players have 90 percent of their weight on the left side at impact ( so try for 100 and you should get most of it to your left side).  If you watch video of top guys their hips start unwinding before the club reaches the top of the swing ( but this is a very high level move that I cannot do nor 99.9 percent of golfers). so the early you start the better!

3. Def uncoiling and for a lack of better words (pushing my left side into the ground.  Pushing off the right side sounds more like you might have a problem with getting off your right side.  Heres a drill at the top of your swing imagine a soda can underneath your left foot and go ahead and "crush the can" (push that left foot into the ground).

[muttbag]

Thanks guys.  I'll be using these tips as well.  I go from slicing the ball on the front nine to push slicing on the back, and finally will hit a couple of straight drives before the end of the round.  Almost every time.  Irons are straight as can be (with the occasional pull or blade), but trying to stay in the fairway off the tee box is one of my biggest challenges.

[The Phoenix]

Another thing the PGA pro was saying, was to move the hips around and sort of up a bit...that "hip bump" thing.

Between my weight back so far, and the hip bump, and the head back....it all just seems like it would add up to me getting down too much on the ball (take a divot)....

I need to get to the range and feel some things out ... hopefully tomorrow.  we'll see how it goes.  I'm going to work on things for a week or two, then post some follow up videos to see if I'm making progress...

crazy game.

[The Phoenix]

Well, a quick update... I've been driving the ball quite a bit better lately.  The most significant thing I did was to close the clubface a tad bit at address (strong grip).  That has got me hitting the ball much straighter.  Do I hit all the fairways?  Not by a long shot - but, the slice seems to be very minimal - and, I'm just off the fairway in most cases.  I think the accuracy will improve in time.  Lessons have been good - but, after the last lesson, I was getting pretty frustrated - I was being told to keep my weight back, to take a divot, to put the ball just about in front of my left foot, etc....the result was multiple shots off the heel of the club (think I might have even cracked the bottom of the driver head)... but, just going back to my natural shot with the strong grip has got me hitting pretty well.  We'll see how things go in the next couple weeks... Thanks for all who have helped... Most of us need all the help we can get.  Now if I can just stop 3 putting..... :)

[Abu3baid]

I think you should pay attention to the following two positions in the back of the swing.

I should have flipped the pictures, but that's ok.  Take a look at the bottom one first and look at the difference of where your shaft is pointing as apposed to Rory?  Because you are taking it flat (but it doesn't seem like it is too flat) this is forcing you into the crunched up position at the top in the first picture.  Compare that first picture with Fred Couples and see how much space he has to work with and the 90 degrees formed by his arm and side of his body?

The first one you can work on by just taking it back to the half way and just look at the butt of the club and make sure it is pointing inside the ball just to feel and see what it looks like and try to always be there on your take away.

The second drill you can use is stand about 1 foot away from the wall and take the club back and if the club head touches the wall that means that you are too flat.  Also, continue to the top of the swing and start your downswing.  If you start your downswing with your arms like you are doing now your club will hit the wall, so practice starting your swing with your right knee and hips and then let the arms drop and follow.  The club head at no point in your take away or your downswing should touch the wall, if it does then you are still not doing something right.  Let me know and let us discuss some more.

Regards,

Abu3baid

[The Phoenix]

Good point -I can totally see what you're talking about.

I think I have a naturally shallow backswing plane, and my instructor has given me the "low and slow takeaway" guidance.... Combine that with my thought that I come "over the top" leading to an out to in swing path, that has me going more and more shallow to avoid that tendency.  Perhaps the shallow plane leads to not having enough room for the arms and hands to clear (leading to the OTT path)....

I'm not very flexible - so I wonder if this is going to inhibit a smooth and relaxed swing if I'm trying to have a steeper backswing....

I have my lesson tomorrow.. I'll practice getting my hands higher on the backswing to increase the swing plane....we'll see how things go.... Thanks for the input.....

[Stretch]

Just quickly. Backswing (plane) not the main problem. Fine going back and in transition.

After that, it goes pear shaped. You get over and the club head goes left through the ball, as shown by how low it exits on the other side.

Why? Because you don't get your weight forward fast enough or far enough in the downswing before you start to rotate. This is in large part because you sway off the ball in the backswing. That's making it really hard for you to push/slide the hips enough towards the target to keep the club coming from the inside. (Red, address. Yellow, top of backswing. Orange, impact.)

Comparison -- Adam Scott.

[The Phoenix]

Well now.... I guess the pictures don't lie.  I would have sworn that I stay pretty stationary on the backswing - but I do make a slight shift backwards away from the target... It seems I get over the top because at the transition, I start opening my hips and swaying back towards the ball a little before my hands start down - which essentially shifts my hands out from my body as they start down....resulting in the out to in swing path (if that all makes sense).

So lets put it all together:

Increase spine tilt at address

Don't slide/sway away from target on backswing

Make the backswing a little steeper, hands high at the transition

Shift the weight quickly

[Stretch]

Can I add one more thing that would help with both the lateral shift and the club path?

You've hit the nail on the head that it's the "opening too fast" that throws the hands and club outside but it's not just your hips, it's your shoulders too. You can see how much both have squared up even at this very early stage.

Obviously one way to think about this is that you have too much rotation going on early in the downswing. But another would be that you have too little rotation going on in the backswing. If you look at that left panel again, you'll see your hips have barely turned at all by the top of your backswing, and the shoulders are well short of 90 degrees. Compare with another flattish-plane swinger of the club below:

Notice how his hips and shoulders have turned a lot steeper and a lot more? That's because he's allowed his right leg to lose flex (straighten) some, which frees his hips to turn more, on a more tilted angle, which allows the shoulders to follow suit. That's also going to help keep his head steady, while yours is going to tend to move off the ball as we've seen.

So, yes, add right leg a little straighter and left shouder down more to those action items.

[The Phoenix]

I think I concentrate on keeping my right leg from moving, so as to not slide/sway back, that it ends up staying bent like that...  so maybe a backswing thought is to have a fuller rotation and allow the right hip to move up a little (straightening the right leg), before bumping the left hip toward the target at the transition?