Directed Force Putters

[The Club Nut]

5 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Sorry with that reply, I'm out on this one. Its like saying, Until you get an eagle on every hole from holing out from the fairway, you need to work on your full swing.

That's not a fair comparison. The full swing does a lot more than just irons from the fairway.. 18 one putts is an achievable goal. In your mind you just think of them as birdies... He's more like saying "until you hit 14 of 14 fairways, you can use improvement. Or 18 of 18 greens if you will.  

[iacas]

Just now, The Club Nut said:

That's not a fair comparison. The full swing does a lot more than just irons from the fairway.. 18 one putts is an achievable goal.

No, it isn't. See the post prior to yours.

Could it happen some day? Of course. Can someone become so good that they routinely expect to get around 18 holes on regular greens taking only 18-22 putts from wherever their regular shots come to rest (i.e. just normal golf)? No way in hell.

[Kevin Vanic]

Philly K, this putter will absolutely help anyone's game. 

Thanks

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Kevin Vanic said:

Philly K, this putter will absolutely help anyone's game.

Oh brother. Not if you can't aim it.

And a ton of experience tells me the majority of people will not be able to aim the putter. It's not that configurable for the things that affect aim: hosel shape, hosel offset, head shape, lie angle, loft, lines, etc.

[The Club Nut]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

6 hours ago, The Club Nut said:

@iacas actually that's exactly how science works.

You completely misunderstood.

You said you "disagreed." You cannot disagree with a fact. The fact is, the torque forces that open and close the clubface when putting are incredibly, ridiculously small.

You say they're negligible, i still disagree. I have seen the improvement for myself and in each and every person who has tried the putter in person. To say they're not worth considering is the mark of someone who has a bias. I'll agree to disagree, it seems you've made up your mind of what you think you know - according to traditional norms. The DFP is way outside those norms and something all it's own. Thats' why it's patented. I can assure you that edel and DF tools are not "just marketing".  It just so happens the DFP does it better than Edel's putter at the risk of traditional looks. The results speak for themselves. 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, The Club Nut said:

You say they're negligible, i still disagree.

You don't get to disagree. It's a measurable fact.

That's like saying you "disagree" that 2+2=4 or that red light has a longer wavelength than blue. They're facts.

1 minute ago, The Club Nut said:

To say they're not worth considering is the mark of someone who has a bias.

I haven't said that. I've stuck to facts, aside from calling The Revealer a marketing gimmick.

Put a tiny bit of friction in the Revealer and putters will work just fine. And again, the amount of friction is < than the amount required to hold onto the putter so it doesn't fall to the ground mid-stroke.

1 minute ago, The Club Nut said:

I'll agree to disagree, it seems you've made up your mind of what you think you know - according to traditional norms. The DFP is way outside those norms and something all it's own.

Really? It defies known physics? Because that's what I'm talking about. Those are the "norms" I'm using.

And I'd wager a ton of money that the majority of golfers can't aim it inside the hole from 8'.

[The Club Nut]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, it isn't. See the post prior to yours.

Could it happen some day? Of course. Can someone become so good that they routinely expect to get around 18 holes on regular greens taking only 18-22 putts from wherever their regular shots come to rest (i.e. just normal golf)? No way in hell.

Again, you're thinking of things like birdies. If you miss the green and chip it up, you should strive to make that putt for par. Even if it's for bogey. If you're not striving for that, then why even practice putting? Why practice anything? You are having a defeatist attitude just to try and prove a point. 

[iacas]

Just now, The Club Nut said:

Again, you're thinking of things like birdies. If you miss the green and chip it up, you should strive to make that putt for par. Even if it's for bogey. If you're not striving for that, then why even practice putting? Why practice anything? You are having a defeatist attitude just to try and prove a point. 

That's not at all what I said or what was being said by others.

I simply said that it's impossible to become a putter who can consistently count on getting 18-22 putts per round. It's impossible, playing "regular golf" on a regular golf course, because not even a robot programmed to hit putts exactly as calculated could do so, due to the randomness still inherent in putting.

"Perfection" in putting is simply unattainable.

You've completely missed the point or misunderstood it or whatever now several times.

[The Club Nut]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

That's not at all what I said or what was being said by others.

I simply said that it's impossible to become a putter who can consistently count on getting 18-22 putts per round. It's impossible, playing "regular golf" on a regular golf course, because not even a robot programmed to hit putts exactly as calculated could do so, due to the randomness still inherent in putting.

"Perfection" in putting is simply unattainable.

You've completely missed the point or misunderstood it or whatever now several times.

So what you're saying is you've used and tested the directed force putter and have found absolutely no benefits and that it doesn't do what it says it will? And all the people who have in the past, and currently use it are liars and don't know what they're talking about?

Edited October 3, 2017 by The Club Nut

[Jack Watson]

Look at the number of posts on the Kevin vanity types.  Really people?  Do you believe we are stupid?  Club nut you too!

I cannot aim the more techy style putters available just as @iacas

explained.  I am one of those guys.  

He knows about this.  I have to agree with him here.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Jack Watson

[phillyk]

@Stan Moore:

Give me data on percentage makes from scratch golfers or pros using their previous putter and their dfp putter.

Saying until I get 18 one putts, from a instructor or whomever, is enough for me to call BS. No one would say that as a reason to switch because it is not even close to being achievable on a regular basis.

How many strokes gained on putts are we talking about? If its a simple, you may make a few more putts here and there, that's fine. But you're pushing it far beyond that.

[The Club Nut]

1 minute ago, Jack Watson said:

Look at the number of posts on the Kevin vanity types.  Really people?  Do you believe we are stupid?  Club nut you too!

I cannot aim the more techy style putters available just as @iacas

explained.  I am one of those guys.  

He knows about this.  I have to agree with him here.

Have you tried it? 

[Jack Watson]

1 minute ago, The Club Nut said:

Have you tried it? 

Yep.

No different than the Odyssey millenium falcon dude.  Also I am not gonna get sucked into your vortex of stupidity so look elsewhere for support.

[The Club Nut]

2 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Yep.

No different than the Odyssey millenium falcon dude.  Also I am not gonna get sucked into your vortex of stupidity so look elsewhere for support.

Not looking for support, just trying to get people to try something before they say it's no good because of what someone says or doesn't say.  If you saw no difference between the DFP and the odyssey at all, then you likely can putt similarly with whatever is put in your hands, which is a good problem to have. If it's a "Vortex of stupidity" to not have to say more than "try this" to people on the putting green at demo days and have them completely in awe of how much better their putting is, then i'm going to get a bigger kite. 

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, The Club Nut said:

So what you're saying is you've used and tested the directed force putter and have found absolutely no benefits and that it doesn't do what it says it will?

I'm not saying that at all. Add another to your tally of misunderstood.

9 minutes ago, The Club Nut said:

And all the people who have in the past, and currently use it are liars and don't know what they're talking about?

I didn't say that either, did I?

I'm glad you like the putter.

Please, keep posting. Keep bumping the topic. Google and other search engines like recent posts and lots of discussion. You're not helping your cause, man.

Directed Force Putters. Directed Force Putter Reviews. Directed Force Putter discussion. Directed Force Putter Facts.

1 minute ago, The Club Nut said:

Not looking for support, just trying to get people to try something before they say it's no good because of what someone says or doesn't say.

He did try them both.

1 minute ago, The Club Nut said:

If you saw no difference between the DFP and the odyssey at all, then you likely can putt similarly with whatever is put in your hands, which is a good problem to have.

That's not at all what he said.

Add another to the tally.

[The Club Nut]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

You don't get to disagree. It's a measurable fact.

That's like saying you "disagree" that 2+2=4 or that red light has a longer wavelength than blue. They're facts.

I agree, those last ones are facts.  Something being negligible isn't measurable. If you can, however provide exactly what amount of force would NOT be negligible, i would understand more fully.  

[iacas]

Just now, The Club Nut said:

I agree, those last ones are facts.  Something being negligible isn't measurable. If you can, however provide exactly what amount of force would NOT be negligible, i would understand more fully.  

I defined what negligible was already when I said that simply holding onto the putter is enough to easily overcome those torques/forces.

The definition of negligible is "so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering; insignificant." These meet that definition.

[The Club Nut]

Just now, iacas said:

I defined what negligible was already when I said that simply holding onto the putter is enough to easily overcome those torques/forces.

The definition of negligible is "so small or unimportant as to be not worth considering; insignificant." These meet that definition.

So you say, but obviously they are considered enough for Edel to make a putter that was meant to not be effected by these forces as well. I think they're well worth considering.