Let's Talk about growing a good Lawn

[Hooker80]

DO NOT apply any seed until at least 2 and I strongly suggest 3 weeks after you spray RoundUp. The pesticide label will tell you this. RoundUp is in the soil and won't break down for 2-3 weeks and can kill any seed you put down afterward. Putting lime down actually raises the pH level. This will knock back the moss, but I would suggest getting a soil test done. You don't want to put too much down. Assuming you don't have a pH level that is way low, you might need 20-40 pounds of lime per 1,000 square feet just to raise the pH level half a point (6.5 to 7.0).

What part of the country do you live in OP? What kind of grass do you have right now? If you have a bunch of bare spots, seeding even after aerating might not be enough. You will want to put 1/4 inch of topsoil on top of the bare spots. Don't water as needed. The first day you seed, the seed needs 20-30 minutes of sprinkling. Then just keep the soil moist for 2-3 weeks. 5 minutes of watering or so per day or as needed if there is no rain is recommended.

[albatross]

DO NOT apply any seed until at least 2 and I strongly suggest 3 weeks after you spray RoundUp. The pesticide label will tell you this. RoundUp is in the soil and won't break down for 2-3 weeks and can kill any seed you put down afterward. Putting lime down actually raises the pH level. This will knock back the moss, but I would suggest getting a soil test done. You don't want to put too much down. Assuming you don't have a pH level that is way low, you might need 20-40 pounds of lime per 1,000 square feet just to raise the pH level half a point (6.5 to 7.0).

What part of the country do you live in OP? What kind of grass do you have right now? If you have a bunch of bare spots, seeding even after aerating might not be enough. You will want to put 1/4 inch of topsoil on top of the bare spots. Don't water as needed. The first day you seed, the seed needs 20-30 minutes of sprinkling. Then just keep the soil moist for 2-3 weeks. 5 minutes of watering or so per day or as needed if there is no rain is recommended.

I live in NW Pennsylvania.  Right now I have Blue Grass mixed with all kinds of other stuff I've tried in the past.  I'm planning on planting something with a really high percentage of fescue in it.

[albatross]

I've talked to a few other people about my lawn and they are saying I should rent a Tiller instead of an aerator, but I think I'm gong to stick with what the professional recommended.  Any thoughts about that?

My friend that owns a golf course said that basically you aerate to help keep a good lawn going or to make some improvements in health, but if you're starting over, you should always till instead.

[Ernest Jones]

I've talked to a few other people about my lawn and they are saying I should rent a Tiller instead of an aerator, but I think I'm gong to stick with what the professional recommended.  Any thoughts about that?

Do you have a lot of clay in your soil or is it overly compacted from years of neglect? A tiller is going to really loosen up the soil, which can be a good thing but it means you'll need to grade it somehow and roll it smooth-ish again before planting.

If you have a lot of clay then I would probably till it and mix in a shit ton of clay buster which is basically just composted mulch from conifers.

http://www.ekocompost.com/claybuster.html

[MS256]

I've talked to a few other people about my lawn and they are saying I should rent a Tiller instead of an aerator, but I think I'm gong to stick with what the professional recommended.  Any thoughts about that?

My friend that owns a golf course said that basically you aerate to help keep a good lawn going or to make some improvements in health, but if you're starting over, you should always till instead.

What I would do FWIW:

Spread compost (if I thought it needed it).

Till or disc (with a reverse tine/rear tine tiller if possible). The result will be as smooth as a carrot bed. Spread the seed and lightly drag it or top dress it. Spread a light layer of straw over the area to hold everything in place.

I wouldn't ever put out grass seed on top of the ground unless it was riddled with frost so the seeds could enter the ground as it thawed.

If you only punch holes without some top dressing to hold the seeds in place they will float into the holes, go too deep, and leave bare and patchy spots.

[albatross]

What I would do FWIW:

Spread compost (if I thought it needed it).

Till or disc (with a reverse tine/rear tine tiller if possible). The result will be as smooth as a carrot bed. Spread the seed and lightly drag it or top dress it. Spread a light layer of straw over the area to hold everything in place.

I wouldn't ever put out grass seed on top of the ground unless it was riddled with frost so the seeds could enter the ground as it thawed.

If you only punch holes without some top dressing to hold the seeds in place they will float into the holes, go too deep, and leave bare and patchy spots.

I believe what you're saying, but why did this guy that does this for a living recommend to do it the way I've described.  He owns the company and has a Masters in Turf Grass Science from Penn State, which is well known for their program.  Again, I'm not trying to doubt you, I'm just really confused about how this guy could be way off.

[MS256]

I believe what you're saying, but why did this guy that does this for a living recommend to do it the way I've described.  He owns the company and has a Masters in Turf Grass Science from Penn State, which is well known for their program.  Again, I'm not trying to doubt you, I'm just really confused about how this guy could be way off.

I'm not sure how he would do it, and I'm not saying he's wrong. Just how I would do it. I only graduated from the hayfields of Alabama and Missouri.

He might have harrowed the surface with a drag or harrow to loosen the top layer and then added mulch on top and that would probably be fine, or he might have top dressed with soil or sand.

Then again he may have just spread the seed on top of the unbroken ground (but I doubt it).

With any slope at all I would at least make sure I covered it with something.

[albatross]

I'm not sure how he would do it, and I'm not saying he's wrong. Just how I would do it. I only graduated from the hayfields of Alabama and Missouri.

He might have harrowed the surface with a drag or harrow to loosen the top layer and then added mulch on top and that would probably be fine, or he might have top dressed with soil or sand.

Then again he may have just spread the seed on top of the unbroken ground (but I doubt it).

With any slope at all I would at least make sure I covered it with something.

Ha. I wasn't insulting your education.  I didn't realize that you do this stuff for a living.

[MS256]

Ha. I wasn't insulting your education.  I didn't realize that you do this stuff for a living.

I know you weren't, but I was. CRJ had nothing to do with growing turf.

And only as a supplement to my living.

[RH31]

I've talked to a few other people about my lawn and they are saying I should rent a Tiller instead of an aerator, but I think I'm gong to stick with what the professional recommended.  Any thoughts about that?

My friend that owns a golf course said that basically you aerate to help keep a good lawn going or to make some improvements in health, but if you're starting over, you should always till instead.

I agree with your friend. I'd till it up. Rake off as much junk as possible. Dump as much good top soil as needed on top of that. I think you need about 3 inches

of decent soil to grow a decent lawn. Seed/fertilize with whatever your local extension agency recommends for your climate. Add straw, but not too much.

Water enough to keep it damp until the grass emerges. Then  a deeper waterings to help it get established. Once the lawn is established I'd have Lawn Doctor

or some comparable company do the weed and feed thing for a year or three to keep the weeds out.

FWIW, I wouldn't even try a large scale project like this in my area(Northern Md.) until September.

[wils5150]

If there is a lot of bare ground till it, rake the junk up. Make sure you put siduron down as this is the only premergent weed control that you can seed into. another option would be for you to do all the prep work and have it hydroseeded. i have a degree also. while your landscape buddy is correct there is more than one way to get your lawn.

If you use straw make sure it is seed free.

[Always an 80]

My house sits where my barn used to.  The barn burned down when I was in Junior High.  The two acres around the barn is where the cows roamed.  Cows had dominion over what is now officially my yard for some eighty years.  Let me tell ya...I've got grass!!  Not many dandelions because we keep it cut a minimum of four inches.  The grass chokes out most weeds and saves me money on chemicals.

Unfortunately I  must cut most regularly.  The grass is of mixed varieties and has different growth rates.  I spend alot of time keeping it looking even.

My cowabunga lawn is why I am not on  the golf course today.

[albatross]

I actually hung out with my turf grass friend last night. He convinced me to prep my lawn now, adjusting pH, cutting down a couple small trees that I don't like anyway and trimming some limbs on bigger ones and planting towards the end of August.

[MS256]

Any of ya'll have (or like) Zoysia? My only experience with it is a place I plugged between the house and the pool several years ago. There are all sorts of negative reviews on Zoysia with a Google search but so far I have seen nothing negative about it. It was very easy to plug and filled in that area. The grass is thick and very soft to walk on and there are basically no weeds because the Zoysia chokes them out. And it is slow growing so doesn't have to be mowed as often. I suppose the biggest drawback is that it will continue to spread if there isn't a barrier. In my case there is a barrier created by the pool, the house, and a couple of sidewalks that seem to keep it contained.

[Always an 80]

Any of ya'll have (or like) Zoysia?

My only experience with it is a place I plugged between the house and the pool several years ago. There are all sorts of negative reviews on Zoysia with a Google search but so far I have seen nothing negative about it.

It was very easy to plug and filled in that area. The grass is thick and very soft to walk on and there are basically no weeds because the Zoysia chokes them out.

And it is slow growing so doesn't have to be mowed as often.

I suppose the biggest drawback is that it will continue to spread if there isn't a barrier. In my case there is a barrier created by the pool, the house, and a couple of sidewalks that seem to keep it contained.

I had one half of my previous yard in Z.  That is cause my neighbor had his entire yard in it and it came to move in at my place.  I kinda liked it.  Brown in Winter and beautiful in Summer.  And I did not have to cut as often.

Side note...my other neighbor has his entire lawn one of the varieties used as a putting green, and he mowed it like one.  It was funky but pretty.

[albatross]

Ok, I got my soil test results.  I'm a little confused though; please help me analyze this.

Soil Nutrient Levels

Soil pH  6.7

Phosphorus 102  ppm

Potassium   134 ppm

Recommendations-  Plant Kentucky Bluegrass

Prior to planting, incorporate the following into the top 4 to 6 inches of soil:

Limestone:  NONE

Phosphate:  None

Potash:       None

At time of planting, use ONE of starter fertilizer materials listed below at recommended rate.  Apply once just prior to seeding the soil surface:

Starter Fertilizer Rate of fertilizer product (lb. per 1000 square feet)

18-6-6                                       5.5

13-13-13                                   7.5

10-10-10                                   10.0

10-6-4                                       10

7-5-5                                         14

Nutrients Needed (lb/1000 sq ft)

P2O5- None      The nutrient needs for optimum turf growth are listed to the left. These needs will be met by applying the fertilizer materials listed above.

K2O-  0

Laboratory Results:

pH- 6.7 Exchangeable Cations (meq/100g)  2Plb/A- 204      Acidity- 2.80    K-.34    Mg-2.53    Ca- 12.37   CEC- 18.0

% Saturation of the CEC-   K- 1.9    Mg- 14.0    Ca- 68.5

I'm reading this information to mean that I shouldn't need to add anything to my soil to grow good grass.  Is that what this is saying?  Why did the guy that looked at my lawn before I mailed off this test think I needed a ton of lime and what do I do next?  Thanks.

[wils5150]

Ok, I got my soil test results.  I'm a little confused though; please help me analyze this.

Soil Nutrient Levels

Soil pH  6.7

Phosphorus 102  ppm

Potassium   134 ppm

Recommendations-  Plant Kentucky Bluegrass

Prior to planting, incorporate the following into the top 4 to 6 inches of soil:

Limestone:  NONE

Phosphate:  None

Potash:       None

At time of planting, use ONE of starter fertilizer materials listed below at recommended rate.  Apply once just prior to seeding the soil surface:

Starter Fertilizer                   Rate of fertilizer product (lb. per 1000 square feet)

18-6-6                                       5.5

13-13-13                                   7.5

10-10-10                                   10.0

10-6-4                                       10

7-5-5                                         14

Nutrients Needed (lb/1000 sq ft)

P2O5- None      The nutrient needs for optimum turf growth are listed to the left. These needs will be met by applying the fertilizer materials listed above.

K2O-  0

Laboratory Results:

pH- 6.7      Exchangeable Cations (meq/100g)  2Plb/A- 204      Acidity- 2.80    K-.34    Mg-2.53    Ca- 12.37   CEC- 18.0

% Saturation of the CEC-   K- 1.9    Mg- 14.0    Ca- 68.5

I'm reading this information to mean that I shouldn't need to add anything to my soil to grow good grass.  Is that what this is saying?  Why did the guy that looked at my lawn before I mailed off this test think I needed a ton of lime and what do I do next?  Thanks.

all your numbers look good. go with a starter fert like they say above. I would also suggest getting some siduron.(this is the only pre emergnce weed control that you can seed into. ask where you buy your fert about it. everybody says add lime even though they have no idea what the ph is lol.

[albatross]

So why has moss taken over my good grass??