Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
IGNORED

FiveThirtyEight: Rory vs. Tiger vs. Jack Though 3 Major Wins


Note: This thread is 4154 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/how-rory-mcilroy-stacks-up-to-tiger-and-jack/ [QUOTE]With his British Open victory Sunday, Rory McIlroy captured the third major championship of his career. This puts him in some incredible company — only 44 players in the history of golf have won three majors, and just 19 have done so since the PGA Championship adopted stroke play in 1958. On top of all that, McIlroy is barely 25 years old; as was noted often Sunday, only Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods were younger when they won their third career major. Predicting whether Northern Ireland’s McIlroy will pass the major counts of Nicklaus or Woods is beyond the scope of this piece (that would probably involve a process similar to our analysis of whether Rafael Nadal would win more majors than Roger Federer in tennis). But we can look at how Nicklaus and Woods performed in their first three major victories and see how McIlroy stacks up. Woods’s first three major wins include two of the nine most dominant performances in a major since 1958 (according to the Z-Score system developed by our Grantland colleague Bill Barnwell), so it’s tough for McIlroy to compete with Woods’s average of 19.5 strokes below the field in those tournaments. But McIlroy’s first three major titles have been more dominant than Nicklaus’s, and it’s not just an artifact of McIlroy blowing away the field in the 2011 U.S. Open. By both strokes relative to the field and Z-Score, McIlroy’s second- and third-best major victories were better than Nicklaus’s second- and third-best performances. The difference, though, is that McIlroy hasn’t done as much as Nicklaus did in the majors he wasn’t winning. Before grabbing his third major title, Nicklaus finished third at the 1963 British Open with a total score 14.6 strokes better than the field average. If we convert his Z-Score to a probability of winning, Nicklaus’s performance relative to the field was generally good enough to win a major 62 percent of the time (unfortunately for Nicklaus, Bob Charles and Phil Rodgers were both 15.6 strokes better than the field; Charles would win the tournament in a playoff). In addition, Nicklaus’s performance in the 1962 PGA Championship would typically win a major about 10 percent of the time. In all, Nicklaus had 0.76 “expected wins” in all the majors he didn’t win before his third major crown. By contrast, McIlroy only piled up 0.16 expected wins before winning the British Open. (If you’re curious, Woods had 0.43.) Yes, McIlroy has a trio of third-place ties to his name, but none of those performances would typically be good enough to win a major more than 8 percent of the time. When Nicklaus lost, he often played well enough to win but didn’t get a lucky break here or there (he finished second in more majors, 19, than anyone else has won). The same can’t be said for McIlroy, at least at this stage of his career. Even so, McIlroy belongs in the conversation with Woods and Nicklaus. A lot will have to go right for him to challenge Woods’s major championship count (let alone Nicklaus’s), but we should appreciate the greatness we’ve seen from McIlroy thus far.[/QUOTE] Z-score is an interesting metric, and a very simple one. It's a measure of how many standard deviations a golfer's score is from the field average. A more negative number is better. This is a bit of a flukey situation just because Tiger and Rory won two of their events BIG, which doesn't happen that often. Rory's first two wins could end up being the biggest major wins of his career pretty easily.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/how-rory-mcilroy-stacks-up-to-tiger-and-jack/

Z-score is an interesting metric, and a very simple one. It's a measure of how many standard deviations a golfer's score is from the field average. A more negative number is better.

This is a bit of a flukey situation just because Tiger and Rory won two of their events BIG, which doesn't happen that often. Rory's first two wins could end up being the biggest major wins of his career pretty easily.

Yes, I would like to see this used to look at other achievments. For example, Ben Hogan didn't do anything before age 25, but I wonder what this metric would say about his run from 1949-1953. Or maybe look at Byron Nelson in that one amazing 1945 season, where he won 18 times, including 11 in a row. I wonder what his Z-scores were that year compared to other great single seasons.


  • Moderator
Posted

I hope Rory keeps it up.  Great story of a kid from a small country.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/how-rory-mcilroy-stacks-up-to-tiger-and-jack/

Z-score is an interesting metric, and a very simple one. It's a measure of how many standard deviations a golfer's score is from the field average. A more negative number is better.

This is a bit of a flukey situation just because Tiger and Rory won two of their events BIG, which doesn't happen that often. Rory's first two wins could end up being the biggest major wins of his career pretty easily.

And it will all change if/when Rory wins #4 because that was another big win for Tiger - British Open by 8 shots at St. Andrews.  If we were just looking at combined winning margins, Rory would have to win his next major by 18* shots to match Tiger's cumulative winning margin for the first 4.

Not many guys have won 4 majors at all, and I think I am on fairly safe ground in believing that none of them other than Tiger won their first 4 by an average winning margin of 9 (or 8.75*) strokes.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* I awarded Tiger a 1 shot margin for the '99 PGA since he won it, albeit in a playoff.  If someone wants to get picky and wants to take that away then Rory needs to win his next major by 17 to match Tiger's cumulative margin for his first 4 major wins.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 4154 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Wordle 1,631 3/6 🟨⬜🟨🟨⬜ 🟨🟩🟩⬜🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
    • Is it? I bought the Stack radar to replace my PRGR based on what Stack told me! When I am swinging for speed, the PRGR would miss 50%-80% of my backswings due to a higher speed. The stack seldom misses those- at least for me.
    • As an analyst by nature, I would like to compare the scores under both systems. It is something we can easily do if we have the data. I actually thought the new system was less fair to those whose game was on the decline - like mine! Old: Best 10 of last 20 scores with the .96 multiplier. Course handicap excluded course rating and overall par. New: Best 8/20. Course handicap includes course rating -par. My understanding is Stableford caps scores at Net double bogey like stroke play. If so, handicap should be slower to rise because you are only using 8 versus 10 scores. If I am missing something, I am curious enough to  want to understand what that may be. My home course tees that I play are 72.1/154 now. My best score out here is 82. When my game started to decline, my handicap didn’t budge for 13 rounds because of good scores in my first 8! I know I am an anomaly but my handicap has increased almost 80% in the past few years (with only a few rounds this year). For a few months I knew I was losing every bet because my game was nowhere near my handicap. I suspect I have steamrolled a few nuances but that shouldn’t matter much. When I have modeled this with someone playing the same tees and course, one good round, or return to form, will immediately reduce the handicap by some amount.
    • Wordle 1,631 3/6* ⬛⬛🟦⬛🟧 ⬛🟧🟧⬛🟧 🟧🟧🟧🟧🟧 Awesome, @WillieT! Go get another!
    • Wordle 1,631 2/6* ⬛🟩🟩🟩⬛ 🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.