Slippery Greens: What do YOU do?

[sbgolfin_06]

so yesterday was my first time playing a new course, Rancho San Marcos. the golf shop guy advised me to hit a few putts at least before going out because, "the greens are running about a 12-12.5 today on the stimpmeter.." I believe the most that I have ever played was about a 10 so i was intrigued. i get to the first green in 3, laying 4 about 15ft from the hole.. putt slips outside left edge and keeps going straight for another 7 ft. i baby the next putt and still rolls out 5 ft from cup. what a happy 3-putt. this went on ALL day. and i thought greens running a 10 were fast, i literally felt like i was putting on an ice rink. i had one 1-putt from about 20-25ft up a ridge to save par. thats it. a couple 2's but the rest 3s, 4s, etc.

so here's my question for you all. with greens this fast, i hardly ever got a lip-in putt. if it wasnt in the center of the cup, it went past the hole. even when i would tap the ball, i just couldnt get it to stop. and reading the line of the putt when the ball is moving so slowly was hard as well. i was thinking about hitting the ball a little harder next time to make the ball stay on the line i want. but, i'd have to be spot-on with my putts or else run the risk of having 10-15 ft back to the cup. what do you guys do with these types of greens. play for the right speed(tap the ball) and try to read all of the moves it is going to make, or hit the ball a little harder to get the ball to the middle of the cup and hold the line you want? hope this all makes sense and everyone's opinions welcome.

[wolverine318]

For one you have to really pay attention to where the pin is and where your approach shots are ending up. You obviously want to be below the hole and you dont want to be on the short side. Sometimes a chip uphil is going to be better than a downhill 15 footer. A lot of people will tell you to stay below the hole and to the right for a righty since most right handers have an easier time with right to left putts and most of the time greens slop from back to front, obviously this is not 100% true.

Also with lag putts you have to put them in the right spot, which is below the hole with a straight putt as much as possible. 4-5 ft straight up the hill is much better than the 3 footer downhill breaking hard to the left.

This may be wrong but personally I jam putts in on faster greens on short putts. For one it takes some of the break out, if you miss thats not good but I dont think about missing and am confident that I will make it. If I miss I will make the next one. If you try to baby it you are giving into the slop too much and imo making the putt harder than you need to. You never see tiger babying a 3 or 4 footer do you? I mean there are exceptions obviously so lets not get carried away, if you are severe downhill 4 footer your not gonig to blast it and if you miss give its going to roll 10-15 ft downhill, but overall I give it a little more speed if possible.

[sweet adeline]

so yesterday was my first time playing a new course, Rancho San Marcos. the golf shop guy advised me to hit a few putts at least before going out because, "the greens are running about a 12-12.5 today on the stimpmeter.." I believe the most that I have ever played was about a 10 so i was intrigued. i get to the first green in 3, laying 4 about 15ft from the hole.. putt slips outside left edge and keeps going straight for another 7 ft. i baby the next putt and still rolls out 5 ft from cup. what a happy 3-putt. this went on ALL day. and i thought greens running a 10 were fast, i literally felt like i was putting on an ice rink. i had one 1-putt from about 20-25ft up a ridge to save par. thats it. a couple 2's but the rest 3s, 4s, etc.

hey i used to work out at rancho san marcos. it was one of my favorite courses before they re-did a couple holes and i joined la cumbre country club. i actually caddied one day for jimmy connors when he played a match against michael jordan out there. but i digress.

as for fast greens, it's just a matter of your comfort level. if you played at RSM more regularly, the speed of the greens wouldn't be an issue and you'd actually probably enjoy them more than slow greens. you'll probably 3 putt less often if you focus more on the speed of the putt(ie: getting the ball close or tapping it as you said above), rather than the line. remember that if you get the speed down, but your line is off by a couple inches, well that just means your tap in putt is going to be a couple of inches rather than a couple of feet if your speed is bad. hope that makes sense.

[Beach Golfer]

When playing on very fast greens you should do two things:

1. Play more break than you usually would because this will slow the put down and generaly the faster a green is the more break there will be.

2. Try to really die the ball into the cup by using the break of the green. By doing this you are making the hole larger because you are coming in from the side.

[golfnut_rlv]

For me putting fast greens is all about learnign the speed. Practicing before a round is essential for me. Then I can trust my instincts, and I putt much better. As for the break issue, it is very personal. I tend to putt for lag on long putts, and bang the ball in under about 6 feet.

Spend time on fast greens, that is the best way to learn.

[sbgolfin_06]

thanks for the replies. i think that i will definitely try to get out there within the next week and try all of these things. putting is definitely the WORST part of my game, mainly because I refused to do it for so long. it looks like the consensus is to be a little more aggressive on the short putts. i agree that i was giving the green a little more credit by "babying" most of my putts. i just hate when my second putt is longer than the first! anyway, thanks for all the info.

[sbgolfin_06]

hey i used to work out at rancho san marcos. it was one of my favorite courses before they re-did a couple holes and i joined la cumbre country club. i actually caddied one day for jimmy connors when he played a match against michael jordan out there. but i digress.

hey, how long ago did you join la cumbre? i played out there a few months ago for the first time. really nice course, it was in great shape. liked it a lot more than birnam wood, which is a little short. im not a member, but my friend is. so the course (RSM) was actually better before the makeover? how so? anyway, i am definitely going to make this course a regular stop, since its closer than alisal(the river course) and a little more challenging, although i love the GPS in the carts.

[sonicblue]

In all honesty, all the advice about "leaving your approach below the hole," etc..., assumes an awful lot about skill. The large majority of us can plan all we want, but it's just not feasible to rely on placement of my approach. Also, to say to play for your lags to be below the hole or whatever is poor advice, because I don't believe you should ever plan for your putts to do anything but go in. Sure, you may think about speed even moreso when the greens are very fast, but why would you say, e.g., "I'm going to try to run this up there but hopefully leave it short/below the hole."

Here's the two tips I would give:

1) Hover your putter just slightly off the ground, or
2) Play the ball slightly out to the toe of your putter

A simple change to your setup, nothing else any different, and the ball will come off your putter slightly "dead" and take some speed off.

[TourSpoon]

Having played Seminole a few times, I can tell you that it was like putting on the garage floor, and it is not like you can just drive there and ask to use the practice facilities. So you improvise. I started in my garage.

Some of the things that I learned was this:

1. You cannot decelerate the clubhead. Keep the putter moving through the ball at an even pace.
2. On downhillers you can putt off the toe to deaden the contact.
3. You need to rethink strategy with your approach shots. I know that at some courses you are better off being off the green under the hole than you are being on the green higher than the hole.
4. Practice - once you get the hang of it, you will feel like a four footer straight putt is a two footer.

Sidebar - At Seminole the greens were usually double cut and rolled for our tournament and you would see some pretty amazing things. I remember watching a good am player chip...into a bunker. Wow.

[wolverine318]

In all honesty, all the advice about "leaving your approach below the hole," etc..., assumes an awful lot about skill. The large majority of us can plan all we want, but it's just not feasible to rely on placement of my approach. Also, to say to play for your lags to be below the hole or whatever is poor advice, because I don't believe you should ever plan for your putts to do anything but go in. Sure, you may think about speed even moreso when the greens are very fast, but why would you say, e.g., "I'm going to try to run this up there but hopefully leave it short/below the hole."

Your kind of missing the point, the point is to not leave the putt short, if you leave it short A. its not going to have a chance to go in, B. You will still be above the hole, we are assuming you are above the hole to begin with.

When most people lag putt their thought it to get it into the 3 ft imaginary circle or whatever, to have good distance control to make it an easy two putt. A lag putts distance may be different for you and me but lets say 30ft + for the arguments sake. Leaving your approah below the hole also applies to chips and pitches, if you miss the green right, try to get your chip to give you a straigh putt instead of a breaker or straigh downhill putt. I dont think this is unrealistic advise at all. btw the whole game of golf implies a lot about skill. We all TRY to do a lot of things that we dont do, that doesnt mean we shouldnt try to do it and make our game better.

[sbgolfin_06]

you guys bring up a lot of interesting topics. for example, when chipping/pitching onto green, i hardly consider that i will have to put in from where it ends up. im always going for the chip-in now that i am money with the 8i pitch and run, and now that i can get the pw to check. im more of a "speed" golfer.. i mean, dont get me wrong, i definitely take into account wind, slopes on approaches and ridges on green etc, but i like to just get up and hit it and that really does not seem to work on the greens. ugghh.. i despise putting.

and as for hitting the putts closer to the toe, i will definitely practice more with that tomorrow. i hit some quick putts on the carpet after i read it and i could definitely see that the ball has less of a true roll when its toed.

the feedback is appreciated!

[sweet adeline]

hey, how long ago did you join la cumbre? i played out there a few months ago for the first time. really nice course, it was in great shape. liked it a lot more than birnam wood, which is a little short. im not a member, but my friend is. so the course (RSM) was actually better before the makeover? how so? anyway, i am definitely going to make this course a regular stop, since its closer than alisal(the river course) and a little more challenging, although i love the GPS in the carts.

i joined a few months ago. joining a country club (especially in sb) is great seeing as the alternative courses just aren't that great anymore and take a long time to play. la cumbre is great and i love their greens.

i liked rancho before they did the course changes. #1 was a lot better as a 500 yard par 5 and i think they completely ruined #3. it used to be a really challenging hole where you'd have to place your tee shot and hit into a difficult green over a hazard. now its a 300 yard par 4, i don't get it. i also don't get how they can justify $120 for greens fees on that course. if i'm going to spend that much, i'd assume stay in santa barbara and play at sandpiper.