Silent

Good for you. I care about a fair system as well. Besides that, a coerced 'confession' by a young kid with a low iq doesn't necessarily lead you to the truth. In the documentary, we see about three law suits. 1. First Avery case. Result: 18 years proven innocent in prison. 2. Brandan Dassey. Result: after 11 years the federal judge trew out his conviction. 3. Second Avery case. Result: pending. I wouldn't be too surprised if something will happen there. You can call the documentary all you want, but I can think for myself and did a lot of research; things that weren't mentioned, opinions of well respected people from law against Avery etc. as well. I'm dying to know what really happenend, but I'm also intrigued by the misconducts of several people in the system. It's funny that you talk about 'they walked you into a conclusion they carefully crafted', since I could say exactly the same about the DA and police towards the public regarding at least trial 1 and 2, and third to be seen. I couldn't care less about Steven Avery as a person, it's proven he did some disturbing things, but 18 years in prison for something he didn't do is just messed up. If, and that's a really big if which I still think is not very likely, he's innocent of this crime as well there really is nothing 'we' can do to him to make it right. For the 'story' it would be a very cool twist in this case, but regarding the amount of victims, the peace of mind of relatives of Teresa etc. it's best if he's quilty as hell and the doubt about it can be taken away. If for example now they can prove his blood in the car was planted. What then? Probably the conviction will be trown, because if if you can't trust that (planted) evidence, you pretty much can't trust any. But it still doesn't prove his innocence, it creates (more) doubt and proves at least unethical behaviour of the plantee. That would be horrible for the family. Either way can't wait for the next 'episode' in this story, end of August the appeal for Avery will be filed.

I never did, but would like to try it once. Seems fun.

Completely disagree. The purpose of the show was for a big part about the flaws of the system and violated rights. Not once they stated Dassey or Avery are guilty or are innocent, it all was about whether they should be convicted for it or not with the evidence at hand. As is most of the discussion here. There really is no point in discussing about what actually happened, since we don't know and can not know. The mystery is very 'interesting', and I care about that to, I can speculate (and my speculations are that Avery did it after all, while Dassey is innocent; it's an educated guess at best), but I will probably never know what really happenend. I said from the beginning that in my opinion Dassey at least deserved a new trial, and I gave arguments why I thought so. I never said Dassey is innocent, I simply don't know. And yes, his life is ruined (like Avery's life was ruined after spending 18 years in prison innocent). That a young women's life ended doesn't mean you have to convict someone for it without actual prove he had anything to do with it. I don't rule out the possibilty for another shocker (and we get at least some answers regarding what you call the mystery), but I fear we'll never really know unfort.

We're talking about football? To be fair, the men's competition is completely different; only young players (< 23 y/o?) are allowed to compete, except for less than a handfull players in the squad. Very strange actually, but it's because of the already full calender of men's football (World Cup, Copa America, Euro Cup, club competitions already started etc.) Tonight the finals of the 100m sprint women. For me it's almost impossible to watch (3:30 am), and to wake up for those 11 seconds of sprint is a bit too much to ask. Hopefully Schippers will get her gold medal.

Ah, I'm not hearing you. Once again. Nice. The 'just legal proceedings' is the whole point of the documentary, and of my posts here where you responded on. Actually pretty much all my posts here I talk about the legal site of things, not about whether he (and Avery) did it or not because we simply can not know. Constitutional rights were violated, a young kid's life is ruined (I doubt he'll ever recover from this), and now a federal judge said as well he shouldn't be convicted. I post about that, share the articele and your first response (to me) is 'it doesn't mean he didn't do it'. True, it also doesn't mean I didn't do it, but that wasn't really my point.

After two days of Olympic Golf Luiten is at level par. With a low round tomorrow he will still be in contention for a medal, but it will be difficult. Have to say I didn't see anything so far.

That's okay. I feel like we had this discussion before ;) I don't agree it's as simple as that. Actually I'm quite sure it isn't. It should be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Having those sets of rules is what should seperate 'our' courts from those in the third world. They failed to do so, yet he got convicted anyway. Knowing how unreliable such 'confessions' are (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_confession), especially from such a kid with an IQ as high as a carrot's, for me it's completely mindblowing he got a conviction in the first place. Now the federal judge said as well he shouldn't be convicted: that's not implying the judge (or me, or you) knows he is 100% sure innocent, that's a statement that with what they had at hand he shouldn't be convicted. And in my opinion that is as simple as that. Now they will move on to Avery. I still think he ís guilty, but also that evidence might be planted in order to 'help' the investigation. That case seems quite shady as well, but not as much as Dassey's. Curious what we'll see there....

I'm not making that claim. It does mean he shouldn't be convicted for it, as I stated from the beginning. Good to see the federal judge saw that. 11 years down the drain...

It's a shame it took them 11 years to overturn this redicilous verdict. No physical evidence what so ever, only his own, very doubtful 'confession' from a underaged, slow and challenged guy. I guess better late than never.

Well, how about that..... http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2016/08/12/dassey-wins-ruling-teresa-halbach-murder/88632502/

USA's Armstrong wins cycling time trial women, Anna van der Breggen who won gold in the roadrace got bronze this time. Second is a Russian who was suspended at first (history of doping), but last minute was allowed to compete after all. That's too bad, since 4th place is another Dutchie; she made an error and landed in the bushes, costed 18 seconds from going of the road and back on the bike again + obviously time lost in getting back to speed and rhytem. She might have trew away a gold medal, but at least á medal there. In 5 minutes the men start.

Yea, he has a little bit this dorky look... but when he starts talking you notice he really is not. Very confident without getting too cocky, realistic, sportsman and actually quite down to earth. And very happy to be in the Olympics. Hopefully one day his other dream (to be in the Ryder Cup) comes true as well.

We might see some cyclists fall again today. Very wet conditions. Time trials women just started, men later today. By the men Dutchman Tom Dumoulin is the big favourite for gold, however in this wet and windy conditions it can be more of a lottery who has the best conditions.

Luiten seems to be really, really excited to be in the Olympics. Is talking the whole season about it, and now he's there he's making video's/vlogs for the Dutch fans, guiding them trough the Olympic Village etc. Loves being around the other (Dutch) sportsman and women. Ofcourse I always hope he'll do well, but in this case I really would like to see him win.

Van Vleuten will be okay....

No problem. Yea, very nice game. The Netherlands surprise us, they are (were) not one of the top teams, but after beating China (nr 3 of the world) and now this match against USA (nr 1) who knows what is possible for the rest of the games. We did beat you regarding the beauty of the women on pitch though :P (even though the women in hockey and handball are really A+). Very important match against Italy up next. I don't really expect a medal though. Netherlands will get some (gold) medals in hockey (m+w), cycling time trial (m), handball (w), shooting, sailing, judo and 100+200 metres sprint (w) + some other sports I expect. And who knows what Luiten can do, haha.

Anyone watching USA - Holland womens volleyball? Amazing match, high level.

Annemiek van Vleuten is okay considering the circumstances. She's in the hospital but awake. How the breakings in her spine will effect her career (or normal life) is unknown yet, but there are no signs of paralisation or something like that. She even posted on Twitter saying she's okay. Her crash from a different angle, viewers discretion adviced: Shocking is that it takes a full 2 minutes before any help arrives. She's just lying there unconsious. If you see how she crashed from the official video at the race you can only think about how lucky she was in the end; she could have died in this kind of crash, landing on her neck. Van Vleuten was heading for a gold medal, after this crash her teammate Anna van der Breggen did the only thing she could do: bringing the gold medal home to Holland after all. Immediatly after the finish she was told her teammate was consious and she could talk. Never had so much mixed feelings watching a race.

Wow. Just wow.

T33 at the end, and just as at The Master two years ago the best final round of the entire field. Also the same as then; he wasn't in contention anymore at that point.

A good -5 last round. Needed one more round like that to finish high. At the moment just inside top 25.

Luiten made the cut at the PGA Champioship. Just. Hopefully two good rounds in the weekend.

Just saw Luiten hit the flagstick for a hole in one earlier today. That would be something.... -1 at this point so that's good. Right now I'm amazed by the struggles of Dustin Jonhson and Jordan Spieth. Hopefully they'll recover.

FYI bicyclists shave their legs not for speed, but for when they fall it causes less injuries. With hairy legs skin gets more easily 'ripped off' when kissing the tarmac.

Second season underway. Full article: http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/making-murderer-new-episodes-real-8464810 Hopefully Zellner realises that see needs to 'prove' it in court, not in the series Still very curious about the actual evidence she keeps talking about. If I'm not mistaken she should file the appeal at the end of August, so then we might know more.