dove694

Where did you end up playing?

I have played two of them and had two very different experiences. Old Works in Anaconda, MT was a joy to play. I played it several years ago so I don't remember too many specifics, but I do recall really enjoying the layout of the course and my playing partners also raved. The Idaho Club in Sandpoint, ID, however was nothing short of goofy. It was a decent small-town public course called Hidden Lakes at one point, until Nicklaus was brought in by a wealthy developer to redesign it. The result was a course that was virtually unplayable because of how difficult it was. The greens were absolutely ridiculous (4-putt city). I believe it has been closed down in recent years, and I understand why. You'd be hard pressed to find many golfers that enjoy inflicting that type of punishment on themselves. I have played a few Arnold Palmer tracks as well, and his seem to be a lot more player-friendly than Nicklaus' courses.

I just spent the last few months working in the Miami area and was excited to bring my clubs for a little winter golfing. I had the chance to play a lot of great courses (Doral, Biltmore, Miami Beach to name a few), but the one that kept me coming back was a 9-hole gem called Granada in Coral Gables. It was a Par 36, ~3000 yards with small elevated greens and a couple of fantastic Par 5's. Such a fun course to play! I enjoyed it every time!

I broke par three times this past year, with the lowest being a 69 (-3). 4 birdies 1 bogey. 6304 yards, 69.6/124. I had a bit of a strange 2016. I shot in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. I had a stretch where I couldn't break 80 to save my life. I also had a lengthy stretch where I was never higher than 75. My index ranged from 8.4 in the spring to 3.6 in the late summer.

i posted earlier that i felt as if my game was much improved, but my handicap hadn't dropped significantly. well after my round today, my index dropped to an all-time low of 3.9. i started the year as a 7.2 index, so I guess the results are starting to come!

played two rounds today at my home course. one off the blue tees and one off the white tees (6600 and 6300 yards) and shot 75-73. my handicap dropped to 3.9 - the first time i have ever been a 4 handicap!

I agree with the first reply. Take some time away and give yourself an opportunity to recharge. We all have our slumps - even the tour pros. Remember, it's just a way to get some fresh air and exercise!

I had a stretch like that about a month ago. For a few solid weeks (playing nearly every day), I couldn't break 80 for the life of me. I kept shooting 83, 86, 84... that sort of thing. And I think I was just trying too hard to fix everything all at once. I started to overthink about mechanics and my confidence was low and I was tense over every shot and every putt and it all just compounded into poor scores and frustration. But then I decided to take a few days off and then followed it up with a few good sessions on the driving range where I focused on swinging smoothly and swinging within myself. The issues I was dealing with seemed to fix themselves. I didn't change anything about my swing, I just focused on approaching the game with "ease". And at the moment I am playing some of the best golf in my life! Everybody goes through their slumps. Maybe just take some time away and when you return remind yourself to slow down and play within yourself. I bet that will help a lot!

Remember, to shoot in the 70's you do not need to play perfect golf. On the average course, breaking 80 means shooting between +7 and +9. That means you can still make your share of misses and still achieve your goal. For the most part, if my score is in the 70's I am happy with my round, and if I creep into the 80's I am disappointed. On the days where I am over 80, it's often because I didn't hit the fairway often enough from the tee. Golf is an incredibly difficult game when you are playing out of the muck, be it out of the trees or heavy rough or (even worse) the hazards. If you are able to consistently keep the ball in play with your driver, your chances of a good score increase tenfold. Also, if you are hoping to break 80 you will need to have good touch around the greens. Doesn't mean you need to get the ball up and down every time, or make every 6 footer that you look at. You just need to be able to 2 putt consistently and find ways to scrounge out some pars if you do miss the green with your approach. I think the toughest part about breaking 80 is the mental barrier associated with the number itself. Every low handicapper has their own personal story about how they were well on their way to breaking 80 for the first time and found a way to screw it up (ie. "I doubled the last hole and shot 81"). If you are putting yourself in that position, you definitely have the skills to break 80 but it can be a tough hurdle in a golfer's development. And when you finally do break 80, it's a huge feather in your cap!

for me, it's having no double bogeys. when i play, i break 80 about 70% of the time but i usually find a way to make a double out there.

My ball striking has definitely improved. I have lost a substantial amount of weight in the last several months, and in turn my swing speed has increased and I'm hitting it much farther. I average 250-260 off the tee now (275 if i really connect) as opposed to about 235 last year and all my irons are a club and a half longer. That has made all the difference in the world! My short game has always been good, so lately I have been surprising myself with some pretty respectable scores. My handicap hasn't dropped all that much (maybe a shot or 2) but I feel like a completely different player. More"solid".

I have broken par three times in 2016, and each time I followed it up with a round in the 80s the next time out. I played the last two days I shot 69 (-3) one day and 82 (+10) the next. And on two separate occasions I have shot 80 after being 71 in my previous round. Do any of you deal with this? What do you think causes it? Any insight on how to fix it? I should add that all my rounds were played on courses of similar difficulty (~6300 yards, Par 72). It's not like I played a really easy course one day and Bethpage Black the next. I just played much worse in the second round!

I played three rounds in the last three days and shot 83-69-82. Golf is a funny game!

I love Beef. One time he was interviewed after a round that included a rain delay and asked how he stayed sharp during the delay. He responded that he had a burger and a beer. Haha! Golf needs more characters like that. The guy's got some serious game too! Although, the XL shirt was looking a little tight at Oakmont, time to move up to the 2X, Andy boy!

Just saying! I simply thought this article was interesting. I know that Gozzer Ranch is not by any means an easy course, and Pat Perez and Andrew Magee shot 60 and 62 there respectively. I know it's not their home course. I read in the newspaper that Dustin Johnson "sniffed a 59 but settled for a 61" there as well after the US Open at Chambers Bay, although I would imagine he plays there at least semi-frequently since his father in law (a fella named Wayne Gretzky) has a house on the course. I understand the difference between what they CAN shoot and what they WOULD shoot, I just happen to think it would be lower than what you think they would. Guess we need to organize a foursome with you and I and a couple touring professionals to settle the debate. You book the tee time and I'll bring the beer ?

@natureboy Here is probably the best clue as to how many Tour players own course records at their respective clubs. There are plenty of examples of low scores (60-65) shot in "noncompetitive" rounds by some familiar names. It's an interesting read - check it out! http://www.golfdigest.com/story/100-greatest-course-records (PS. I hope the Natureboy moniker means you are actually Ric Flair enjoying retirement from wrestling by trolling golf forums on the internet! ?)

Years ago I had a stretch where I was playing some very good golf and was consistently shooting in the low 70s. I challenged my friend who was the defending club champion and a Div 1 college player at the time to a match straight up for a couple bucks. We went out one evening and I played better than expected and shot 71 (-1).... I lost by 8.

@iacas Fair enough, you just seemed to be cutting down my points a bit. Guess I was reading too much into it. The course rating is 71.7/131(as I've mentioned before) and was playing tougher that week than I've ever seen it. They grew the rough out and got the greens rolling ridiculously fast so a -11 total was actually pretty good even by elite amateur standards. He won by a few shots. You are right, it wasn't his first time seeing the course. We also played the High School AAA tournament there that year, and he shot 72-65 in that if my memory serves me correctly. But we played the Blue Tees that week (6540 yards, 70.8/128) and it wasnt set up particularly difficult. I believe that was his first time seeing the course. A few years prior we hosted the AA High School Tournament and Adam Hadwin's team competed. We were the defending champions playing on our home course and had 4/5 players returning so we were feeling pretty confident. We shot rounds of 305-299. Hadwin's team beat us by 25 shots. Roger Sloan (Web.com Tour winner) also competed that week, as did Habs goalie Carey Price. I don't remember what Hadwin and Sloan (and Price for that matter lol) shot, but it wasn't better than 68-70. My team mate shot that and won the low individual. Being at a high elevation, the course plays quite a bit shorter than the yardage. #1 and 2, for example, saw a handful of players drive the green that week and they play 360 and 380 yards respectively. I also know of a guy who plays the European Tour that had a 60 degree wedge into #13 one day (487 yards, slightly downhill). So I would imagine Tour players of better than average length would find my course quite short. The odds of him shooting -32 would be slim, but not impossible. Those guys absolutely demolish a handful of the easier courses (ie. Kapalua, the old rotation for the Las Vegas Invitational, the old rotation for the Bob Hope, TPC Scottsdale before they toughened it up, North Course at Torrey, etc.) and scores of ~ -30 haven't been terribly uncommon at some events. But I think the PGA Tour and the Web.Com Tour seem to be trying to get away from insanely low numbers and are moving tournaments away from some of the old venues that can't keep up with how far they hit the ball now, and renovating other courses to beef them up. I recall the Tour players voted to eliminate the TPC Stadium course at PGA West in the late 80's from tournanent play because they thought it was "too hard" and this year when they used it again it seemed to be quite playable for them. In fact, they seemed to have no issues making their way around the course at all. That speaks to the quality and depth of the fields nowadays. That being said - no, I wouldn't expect a -32 total. But it definitely wouldn't shock me either. On a side note, I would be really interested to see this type of experiment revisited. This thread has fuelled some great speculation and debate, so thank you guys for playing along! And also, "speculation" is what the thread is all about! Sure, I'm placing the Tour guys on a pedestal but they DESERVE it. Yes "Golf is Hard", but those guys are GOOD. Low 60s are very much a possibility in any tournament they tee it up in, let alone on a public course that was designed with the average golfer in mind. Let's give credit where credit is due! If all the players from 75-125 on the money list decided to go out and play a new course (of "moderate difficulty" for amateurs) every week for the next 2 months, course records would be getting smashed all over the place. They might shoot the odd 70 or 72, but you darn well bet there would be a lot of 63's and 64's in there too. Regardless of poor course conditions, lack of course knowledge or anything like that, they are gonna make birdies in droves and they are going to go low!

@iacas Not sure why you feel the need to try and make people feel stupid? What's the attitude all about? Because you seem to think that nobody else has any valid arguments, I felt compelled to contact a friend of mine and ask him about the subject. He has won twice on the MacKenzie Tour, 4 times on the Gateway Tour and played in the US Open in 2010 at Pebble Beach. I Facebooked him a few days ago and heard back from him today. He said that his Tour buddies of that calibre typically shoot in the mid 60's (or lower) if they play an "average" course for a Pro-Am or a sponsor's event or for a casual round. He added that he played a municipal course in Phoenix last week (he didn't say which one) and shot -8 without ever having seen the course before. And he was never able to make it through the final stage of Q-School so he self-admittedly doesn't have the skillset of the PGA guys. I still say the average Tour player would shoot in the low 60's at my course. Here's the scorecard of it, and Nick Taylor's scores from the 2006 Provincial Tournament. He was only a junior at the time and hadn't played for the University of Washington yet. Safe to say his handicap has improved a little bit since then and he still shot 68 twice and under difficult tournament conditions! No way he'd shoot that now. Nick Taylor Round: 4 Position: 1 Score: -11 Strokes: 277 Tip: Click on a hole number to compare Nick’s score to the field. Hole 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Out 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 In Total Yards 363 381 374 191 496 406 524 197 401 3333 530 197 424 487 559 166 393 428 286 3470 6803 Handicap 16 4 14 18 10 2 12 8 6 11 15 3 1 7 13 9 5 17 Par 4 4 4 3 5 4 5 3 4 36 5 3 4 4 5 3 4 4 4 36 72 Round 1 5 3 4 3 4 4 4 3 4 34 4 3 4 4 5 3 3 3 5 34 68 Round 2 4 3 4 3 4 3 6 3 5 35 5 3 4 4 5 3 4 4 4 36 71 Round 3 4 4 3 2 5 4 4 3 4 33 4 3 3 4 6 3 4 4 4 35 68 Round 4 4 3 4 3 5 3 5 3 4 34 5 3 4 4 5 3 4 4 4 36 70 Key: Eagle Birdie Bogey Dbl Bogey

You do make some good points. I do know the game very well and believe I know what I'm talking about. I simply don't think that I'm vastly overestimating how good they are. I think the chances of them shooting 63 or 64 on my personal home course is pretty high, and that's what the thread is about! If your home course is 7400 yards with a rating of 74.5 and a slope of 144, then yeah they are probably going to shoot over 70, but in my case (relatively easy course, 3000+ foot elevation, good conditions, etc) I just don't see them shooting in the high 60s or worse.

Well firstly I think a 225 yard Par 3 is vastly harder than a 325 or 425 yard Par 4. But I do understand that the scoring average on the Par 3 would be lower. I hear ya. I get it.

Aside from the fact your replies come across as a bit demeaning, I was talking about the score relative to par as opposed to a total score. Of course someone is going to shoot a lower number on a par 3 course. I meant pros are going to make up shots on par 4's and 5's as opposed to long Par 3's in relation to par.

That's a valid point. But if you take a straight-away, straightforward 365 yard Par 4, they would probably have a "pitch" shot into the green and that's where those guys are deadly. A little knock down half-wedge that skips twice and checks is right in a Tour player's wheelhouse. Also, you said a Tour player would also shoot 54 on a 4000 yard course full of 225 Par 3's. I think that's lowballing it. They would probably be higher than that if such a course existed. But it's on the Par 4's and 5's that a player makes up their shots. I'd suspect that their scoring average wouldn't vary greatly on a 220+ yard Par 3 and a 280-330 yard Par 4. Maybe only a half a shot or less. I'm not disagreeing with ya - just saying!

I think you are underestimating their ability tbh. Put a wedge in their hands and it's almost automatic. 6600 yards = lots of wedges.