sheepdog

How so? he doesn't respect my opinions, Mine are as valid as his. He might as well start calling me names like we did when we were kids. He can go troll someone else.

I respect your opinions, starting to wonder if I respect you as a person.

Simply put just for you, I said I respected your opinion and expect you to respect mine, case closed.

Read my last paragraph.

Life and the knowledge I have attained in my 63 years on the planet. I'm sure there is some math involved but not to the degree things like WAR have to do with things. IMHO today people just have too many mathematical stats. They can tell you things how many feet the average Joe Blow hit his 9 iron from the flag at 139 yards on a partly cloudy day on bermuda fairways. Too complicated yet doesn't take into consideration the human aspect of it all. I take into consideration things us older folks take into consideration. I don't need all the math, I use what's happened in my life much more. It's simpler to me. I use my brain, not a computer. I was in the paint business for 44 years. I I can look at a building and pretty much tell you what it would take to paint it. If there's something to figure it's pad and pencil time. Today that gets some strange looks but it works for me. I don't show up at a job site with a laptop, just a pad and pencil. I used to have 37 people working under me, all but two of them younger. I can see the difference the way my generation thinks compared to more recent generations. I'm from the three channel on the TV generation. Smart phones, I lived the majority of my life without one. Did damn well too. Some things are an improvement, some not. I'm fairly set in my ways. The dog and new tricks thing. I understand it's up to me to keep an open mind to other's ideas but I expect the same from others about mine. You have as much right to think Tiger is the best ever just as I have as much right to differ. I'll argue it with you but I respect your view.

Wait till you get older than you'll find out what frustration is all about. I can't hit the shots at 63 that I could 15 years ago. The mind says cut the corner, hit it over the tree, now the body says oh no you don't. I've found a good bourbon helps the frustration part though.

No, everyone plays the same course and plays by the same rules. They same technological wonders are out there for everybody. What isn't the same are the players and how they use it. They still have to know their strengths and weaknesses and that's what separates the good from the great.

Mathematical stuff works for some, it's like a golf instructor that uses a computer and goes from there. Works for some, never worked for me. My best advise when things were going haywire was from a good player I'd played with for years. He could straighten me out in minutes just by watching me and saying a sentence or two where as the instructor with the computer and the degree left me scratching my head. Stats like WAR don't take into consideration the aches and pains, what's going through someone's mind, the fight they had with the wife, the reaction to the crowds, the doubts, the pressures, It's just numbers, there's more to every part of life than that.

Aren't opinions what makes the world go round. Yours is different than mine. Brandel Chamblee's differs from Gary Player's. The greatest player ever is teeing it up this week, Player said he didn't know Jack was there. Baseball might be different but the theory is the same, you never saw Nicklaus or Hogan, I never saw Hogan, Snead, Jones or Hagen Mathematical stuff is bullshit to me. WAR?????? You can compare a left fielder to a pitcher using WAR????? It takes more than 30 seconds to form an opinion, it takes a lifetime.

In your opinion, your 40, you never saw Jack or Hogan, at least in their prime, only heard of them. I remember a poll taken by the St. Louis Cardinals back a few years ago. Who was the greatest Cardinal ever. The winner, Albert Pujols. Fact is most of the people taking the poll never saw Musial play. They never saw Gibson pitch. No one alive ever saw Rogers Hornsby or Pepper Martin. Here we have the same situation. You can only comprehend what you are familiar with. Tiger has been in your headlines. I'm afraid my view might be tainted towards Jack. His headlines happened when I was young and impressionable. Many people older than me say Hogan for the same reason. 500 years from now all people will comprehend is that Tiger won 14 majors and Jack won 18.

Find the right chiropractor. At 63 I play 18 and have to take Advil for the next two days, Pinched nerve in the neck. Used to play pretty much every day, might have played 5 times last year. Three times I played pretty good the last two stunk.. Pain doesn't bother you as bad when you played good.

Never bothered me and I shoot competitively also, vintage sniper.

Check your history my friend, Hogan and Nicklaus were paired together the last two rounds of the 60 U.S.Open. Hogan played in some of the majors till 1967. He was probably still calling Jack "boy" then like he did Palmer.

It must really grate at you iacus to know Tiger will never catch Nicklaus and after all that's what people 100 years from now are going to look at, Jack won 18 of them, Tiger 14. Tiger's record at the Ryder Cup, The greatest player ever and he's 13-17-3 that's under .500. The greatest player ever carries a weak partner, shouldn't he? Nicklaus didn't play against second rate fields either. He played against Kings, Black Knights, Slammers, He played against folks with 4 Masters titles, 5 Britishs, Ever hear of Dave Hill, Bruce Crampton, Miller Barber, George Archer, Tom Weiskopf, Ken Still, Hubert Green, Johnny Miller? He played against Hogan who, to tell the truth, should be part of the conversation also. Tiger is a fanatastic player, I've seen him in person, I've watched him hit irons like lasers, make putts when it was on the line, I've seen Nicklaus do the same. Hey Jack has 18 majors, Tiger 14. Grates you doesn't it. As far as your disrespect of Gary Player, how many majors have you won? Could you even make the cut on one of the mini tours? I see your credentials. I sure Gary Player doesn't give a shit about you either. Hey check this out, from the PGA. I won't tell you who they have as number1 but they say it isn't even close. https://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/10-greatest-golfers-all-time

Mike Grebe is my name but I've been going by sheepdog since the 70s. Had it down to a 2 handicap in the 80s and 90s, but breaking 80 is a good day now. I'm big on the history of the game and have had the opportunity to watch everyone from Tommy Bolt to Tiger in person. Just retired so forums seem to have become an everyday thing so thanks for letting me join.

By the way compare their Ryder Cup records.

I wonder how old you are, Nicklaus hit long irons better than anyone, even Tiger. People that saw both in their prime will agree with me. If Jack being married to the same woman didn't matter than how did the 9 iron that Erin bounced off Tiger's skull effect his game, his mental attitude? Longevity matters, ask Tiger what he would give for being healthy the last ten years. Longevity matters because Tiger will never catch Jack now, Jack won 3 majors in his 40s, Tiger would sell his soul to the devil if he could. Ask Tiger if longevity matters. Which young pro was it that said back in 2015 when informed Tiger was going to tee it up that week that he was glad the best player ever was going to play that week to which Gary Player promptly replied he didn't know Jack was going to be out there. Argue with Gary Player.

Well I joined just to get in on this. I'm 63, I've seen them both. You youngsters know I'm going to say Jack and your right, I'll put him over Tiger. Lets compare parts of their game. Driver, Both were among the longest of their era. During the 60s Nicklaus could hit it farther than anyone on tour and Palmer and a guy named George Bayer were long.. Jack also hit fairways, Tiger doesn't. Clear advantage Nicklaus. Long irons, Jack, best long iron player ever. Middle irons, tie both hit shots that were unbelievable, Nicklaus never missed a green, maybe just a slight nod to Jack here, no I'll call it a tie. Short irons, Tiger gets the nod but Nicklaus was no slouch Wedge, Tiger no doubt but don't think Nicklaus was a 15 handicapper with a wedge as some of you younger folks imply. Short game, again Tiger, perhaps he got more practice at it, during his prime Nicklaus just didn't miss greens. Tiger is the clear winner here. Putter, A tie, both made putts when they absolutely had to. Mental, Here's what made Jack better than Tiger, Nicklaus just never made a mistake on the course as well as with his personal life. Married to the same woman for what 57, 58 years, says something. Nicklaus' mental capacity on the course was truly tops, he could re rout his swing during the middle of it, read up on Jack's famous one iron at Pebble that he bounced off the flagstick in the 72 Open. Intimidation, Tiger here, of course it was harder for Jack to intimidate Palmer, Player, Trevino, Watson, Floyd & Snead, Longevity, Yes this matters and Jack wins hands down. Tiger jacks around with his swing too much, Nicklaus might have tweaked his a little but never to the degree Tiger did. Tiger listened to too many other experts. Trevino had it right here when he stated I won't listen to anyone telling me to do this or that until he could prove to me that he could beat me. That's my opinion and we all know about opinions.