PS90

My wife will come play with me when all my buddies make excuses to get out of going to the course. She's my last resort playing partner, in other words. She has absolutely no interest in getting any lessons or playing seriously, but it's still better than playing solo. She is naturally pretty athletic, so she's decent without any help. It REALLY sucks when she swings real easy (and with bad form) and drives a arrow-straight 160 yard drive, and I'm taking lessons, buying expensive golf clubs, and slice my drive two fairways over...

If their faces were a little more serious, I would have thought they were about to beat the hell out of each other.

One thing that I would be worried about is the apparent "circumstantial evidence" present. The OP never really mentions whether the Pro or the couple playing the course actually SAW that the car was hit by their ball or not. If the roadway is clearly visible from the clubhouse (or range, or wherever the Pro was at the time), then the driver's accusation may have some teeth. But if, like every course I have ever played, it is very difficult to see the road (or most other out-of-bounds) on this particular course - due to the central location of the pro shop and/or the hedge obstructing the pro's view, then the Pro should be liable for assuming the couple hit the car. In other words, if the Pro just assumed that those players hit the car because they were on that hole about the time that the driver claimed his car was hit (whether it actually was them or not), then the Pro is using circumstantial evidence at best, and the Pro is guilty of a false accusation. Also, whether the course was a private club or not, is not an issue - even a public course is privately managed, and has the right to deny anyone entrance to the course for unfounded reasons (like hunting down an alleged car-damager).

I totally agree with this. I have read the book and watched the S&T; DVD's many times, and I also agree that their fundamentals are very helpful. MY problem, however, was in the implementation as well. For whatever reason, my swing does not do what S&T; is supposed to do. A STILL slice the ball, no matter how much I move forward on the ball, or how much I come in-to-out. I realize it's my own mechanical issue, not an issue with S&T; - but, to me, it at least goes to show that S&T; is not going to make everyone' s crappy swing start shooting sub-60's. Having said that, I agree with the posters that said that an approved S&T; instructor would probably help a lot, but there are very few available. So, like others have said, I think I will glean some concepts from Mike and Andy, but stick with my (mostly) conventional swing. At least until someone can show me a better way.

Dang! You guys are well-controlled! Everybody I play with (especially me) throws a club at least once a month or so. Other than that, I yell and cuss, because it makes me feel better - but I try to hold it in check if people I don't know (especially kids) are within earshot. Having said that, I have noticed that the more pissed I get, the more tense I get, and therefore the worse I play. Maybe I need a mid-round massage or something.

DUDE! That's awesome! I have a Team Effort Cougar bag, and a bunch of other WAZZu stuff in my bag, but that driver is totally original and cool. How did you do that? - You couldn't have just freehand-painted it on? Could you? GO COUGS!

Okay, I agree that does happen at times. But you're talking about course etiquette, while my comment was based on what actually draws people to the game of golf. It's kind of apples to oranges. In other words, you can have poor etiquette and be a good golfer, and/or you can just go out and smack balls with the driver, but have good etiquette. I know that I'm not good, but my etiquette is very good.

I'm in no way trying to start a fight here, but to me, golf is about having fun. There seems to be a lot of talk lately about how the sheer numbers of recreational golfers is on the decline, and it may become a problem eventually, if it starts to cost the courses more money than they are making due to low membership income. With that said, a lot of golfers (especially the ones who aren't very good - like me) just want to go out and have fun. And smacking a ball with the driver is fun! I absolutely agree that a good fairway wood swing off the tee will beat a poor driver swing, but that's not going to attract as many people to the game. I guess the point of my comment - if one golfer is more interested in a good score - that is awesome and should be encouraged by all means, but, if another golfer just wants to go out and wack the ball, the "good" golfers shouldn't be ridiculing him, just for him wanting to have fun. He may be hurting his own game, but he's not hurting anyone else, and at least it's another person supporting our game.

Hi guys, I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have the same problem as leezer - either a push or a slice or both at once. Usually my short irons end up in a push and the longer clubs (driver) go straight, but then slices. I assume this means that I'm swinging in-to-out - which pushes the short iron shot - because the ball is further back in my stance, and then the further-forward ball position with the driver is past that "point of tangency" and I'm hitting it on the "coming back inside" part of the swing. And, all the while, my club face is too open. Does that sound right? My question - isn't the in-to-out swing supposed to be a good thing? Or should I be coming more over the top? Or, should I be putting the ball more forward in my stance for ALL the clubs? As for the club face-angle - I have no problem at all keeping a tee in my armpits - I've done that drill many times. But I think I have a serious open-face problem - and I can't turn my hands over enough even when I'm actively thinking about doing that. Any other tips? Sorry for the infantile-level of my questions, but I need this stuff spelled out word for word in order for it to help me. Thanks very much.

I hope it's okay to reference a company on here (I am not promoting them or connected to them in any way), but has anyone tried the ball markers at www.tin-cup.com ? I could see how some people might find them distracting, but they almost guarantee that no one else will have the same mark as you. Also, at $20 each, that may be kinda expensive, considering a dot with a sharpie is free.

I guess I don't see your point. I don't see football or baseball players wearing denim, but if your point is that cowboys are trying to look the part, then everyone who plays a amateur game of football would be in full pads and helmets, and everyone who plays in a city softball league would wear Major League-style uniform, stirrup pants, etc., so I don't see how your arguement holds up. The majority of us who post on here are no closer to pro golfers than the backyard football player is to an NFL player.

I have to disagree with this comment. I fail to see how dress slacks that PGA pros wear are any more geared for athletic activity than jeans. Maybe I am stereotyping myself here, but my other hobby is calf roping, and jeans are both essential for durability, and work very well for athletic movements (if they fit correctly). Besides, Butch, ask ANY rodeo cowboy if what they do is "remotely athletic" or not.

I totally agree. The bell is a pain in the ass. First of all, it's always on a blind tee, so there is no way (on my course, at least) to see the green (obviously), which means you have no way of knowing if anyone is there or not. If you're following a slow group, the bell works fine, but otherwise, you either don't wait for the bell, tee off, and hope to god that no one is on the fairway or green - or you wait FOREVER, wondering if the bell will ever ring or not. But, anyway, especially on an errant shot off a blind tee, or if I hit into trees with a fairway on the other side, I'm yelling "FORE!" whether I know that people are there or not - better than not yelling and having someone get hit.

I really don't mean to be condescending, but - WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL??? I am almost positive that NO ONE on the course cares what I look like on a Saturday morning round. Maybe I'm more oblivious than most other golfers, but I can't honestly remember even what my buddies have worn in the last few rounds, and I certainly don't remember what any other groups on the course were wearing. I believe that tradition is very important, but, just as times and clothes styles have changed, so have what is acceptable attire in different situations. As a fairly young guy, slacks are my idea of "formal wear". That may not be the same as someone else's fashion standards - but, to me, the point of my comment is that the "no denim" rule may be considered obsolete. As a side note, I think the cliche "that's what the pro's wear" is a fallacy, as well. I am no more a pro golfer than I am a pro baseball player, and we just wear sweats and T-shirts in my city softball league, not MLB-style uniforms.

I don't know about hard liquor or Red Bull, but I used to use those damn 5-hour Energy Shots, until I realized they really did affect my game. I was always jittery, and couldn't hit anything straight. On the other hand, beer doesn't make me any worse of a player. Or any better.

Thanks for the encouragement, Mrd19abhs. This has to be the most frustrating sport, and the most gratifying sport at the same time. Thanks, jschen, for putting it in perspective. I need to follow your lead as far as goal-making, I think.

I hate all you guys. How is everyone that much better than me? It looks like the average time to break 100 is probably around 4-5 months. I've been playing fairly consistently since mid-last-summer, so actual playing-time (not counting winter) is about 5 months, and I'm not anywhere close to breaking 100! I shot about 115 last weekend. Maybe I'd better take up Wii Golf...

I just try to make contact with that little round white thing on the tee. If I can hit the ball with the face of the driver, instead of shanking it, it's just a bonus. If I get 200 yards, I'm psyched and talking trash right and left.

I would wear a visor, because they're cooler, but I would rather sweat in a cap since I look like a complete doofus in a visor. Sunglasses are a must in the summer, too - I don't get the aversion to shades that some golfers have, but that's just me.

That was awesome! The instructor's shorts need to be a little tighter, though.

That's the one! Thanks a lot, RIduffer.

I can't remember for sure, but I thought Erik posted the video about the head-against-the-pole-drill on this thread. But now I can't find it. Sorry to be a pain, but can someone clue me in as to where I can find that video, or maybe re-post it? Thanks very much.

Thanks again for the thoughtful input, guys. Everything you both are saying makes perfect sense, but I thought I was doing all that yesterday. Maybe it's just my perception of what I'm doing is wrong... I will try to get a video up in the next few days for your expert help. I appreciate this forum for all it's resources. Thanks again, guys.

Thanks for the replies, DavidFehertysBike, and iacas. iacas, you are right, I need to desperately get a video for better citisizm. About the parallel is parallel comment - I agree, getting the shaft to parallel, like your picture on the right, is not the problem. MY problem, at least, is - once the shaft is in that position - the continuance of the swing. No matter how I leaned back, or stood up on the follow-through, or tried to clear the shaft - if the shaft was coming at the angle needed to make it parallel to the target line, there was nothing I could do to get the clubhead through the swing, it would always crash into the ground a foot or two behing the ball. In other words, only by taking a flatter(more horizontal) swing plane, with the clubhead pointed left, would I be able to make good contact. This, however, also seems to lend itself to more of an out-to-in swing. What am I doing wrong? Thanks again for any help. (I didn't have this driver fitted for length, but I have been measured for height and wrist-to-ground length before, and was told I needed between a -.25" and standard length shaft. This driver is a standard-length shaft)

Hey Everyone, I am pretty much a rank beginner, especially compared to most of you experts on here, and I (like most noobs) have a terrible problem with the slice. Background: I have started attempting the S&T; method, which I like and it seems to really have improved my contact. I do understand the point of tangency, and how it relates to an in-to-out swing. This technique has helped straighten out my slice into a small fade with my irons - which I can handle. The Question: How does this relate to a driver??? In the S&T; DVD, Mike demonstrates with a driver - and he is demonstrating that the shaft of the driver should be PARALLEL with the Target Line , when the shaft is parallel to the ground on the downswing. The Problem: Maybe it's just me, but isn't the shaft too long to do that? I tried for hours yesterday at the range, and could never get the shaft parallel to the target line - the club head was always pointing left of the target line (I'm a lefty). I had to lean WAY back when sliding my hips forward to get the shaft close to parallel, but that was very exaggerated, and resulted in a poor shot. And, it only resulted in a very slight draw with everything exaggerated. So, my basic conundrum - I don't really understand how to create an in-to-out swing with a driver. Between the long shaft and the ball placement being forward, I just don't get it. It's always out-to-in by the time contact occurs, and I always get some degree of slice. Any tips? Should I just give up and try Nintendo Wii Golf instead?