new irons, lies and more lies

[jontyrees]

clubhead lie that is....

Quick background - 51 yrs old, played since I was 13, always could hit the ball pretty well, HC always within a 3-putt of 10, either side. Last few years been struggling to stay consistent, switching clubs - basically thrashing. Decided to get properly fit and advised on new irons, and I live in austin, TX, so there's a big Golfsmith nearby. Hit a bunch of irons over the last few days, on the monitor and outside, and to my suprise, most successful have been the Rocketbladez and Rocketballz - nothing between them. Today, while whacking more balls on the monitor, the assistant pulled out a lie board and had me take a few cuts. Since my misses were generally pushes about 10yd right, or draw/hooks 10-20yds left, and my good shots were draws to the line, he thought I was probably hitting heel first, and needed flatter clubs. I've always suspected that, as the toe of my club is off the ground at address. Not the case at all - I was hitting toe first consistently, with all the balls toward the toe of the club - the marks said I need 2degrees upright. He pulled a 2degree upright club, I hit on the board again, bingo - hitting the center of the clubface, sole marks right in the middle also.

Question is, what about too-flat clubs would suggest I'd have relatively frequent misses left, and a general l to r ball flight?

Now I'm also considering just having my current clubs bent rather than getting a whole new set. The Rocketballz/bladez were very impressive btw - whatever my previous thoughts were on the name or GI clubs in general. Up around 185yds+ with a 7i, great solid feel, and for me pretty accurate. This was with the stock graphite S. I also tried Amp Cell, X-Hot, JPX825, Cleveland 588TT and MT, Altitide, and some others. My days of vanity forged are most likely over!

[Desert]

I'm new to golf (so take it fir what it is worth) but have read a ton on this very issue. My understanding is this. A too flat club will cause the toe to hit first, thereby slowing the toe of the blade down while the heel powers through. Hence an open face and a left to right ball flight. I do not believe the left misses have anything to do with lie, but rather are more likely the result of your swing path.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Desert

I'm new to golf (so take it fir what it is worth) but have read a ton on this very issue. My understanding is this. A too flat club will cause the toe to hit first, thereby slowing the toe of the blade down while the heel powers through. Hence an open face and a left to right ball flight. I do not believe the left misses have anything to do with lie, but rather are more likely the result of your swing path.

I'm no expert, by any means, but I think it's even simpler than that.  (Your answer may also be true, but I think the following is as well :))

If you rest a club (a right handed iron) on the ground so it sits perfectly flat and attach a pencil (or anything pointy) to the center of the clubface pointing exactly perpendicular to said club face, it will point up in the air some amount, and directly at your target.  Now, if you were to simply rotate that club "up" such that only the toe is on the ground and the heel is off, where is that pencil pointing?  It's pointing to the right of the target.  Simple as that.  The opposite is true of clubs that are too upright ... that "normal to the clubface" vector will be pointing left of your target.

There is no rule that says it's impossible to draw a ball with clubs that are too flat, but the general rule will be that they will tend to start a pinch right of target more than you'd like.

[Desert]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I'm no expert, by any means, but I think it's even simpler than that.  (Your answer may also be true, but I think the following is as well :))

If you rest a club (a right handed iron) on the ground so it sits perfectly flat and attach a pencil (or anything pointy) to the center of the clubface pointing exactly perpendicular to said club face, it will point up in the air some amount, and directly at your target.  Now, if you were to simply rotate that club "up" such that only the toe is on the ground and the heel is off, where is that pencil pointing?  It's pointing to the right of the target.  Simple as that.  The opposite is true of clubs that are too upright ... that "normal to the clubface" vector will be pointing left of your target.

There is no rule that says it's impossible to draw a ball with clubs that are too flat, but the general rule will be that they will tend to start a pinch right of target more than you'd like.

Wow, interesting....*runs off to grab 7-iron, pencil, and scotch tape, tells wife he's reinacting a  MacGyver episode*

[jontyrees]

I'm thinking the misses right are a result of the lie - the "pencil perpendicular to the center of the clubface" effect. Perhaps my misses left, (generally starting just right, and drawing/hooking too much) are a result of subconsciously compensating for the lie issue. Who knows. I got my 5iron bent just one degree upright, so I'll take that to the range and see if there's any impact. If there is, I saved myself a few $hundred, but don't get to club shop after all.