Understanding the Characteristics of Iron Shafts

Hello. I'd like some input as to what is desirable in terms of the shaft characteristics when looking at iron shafts i.e. flex, trajectory, weight and torque.

First a little history. I took a 1/2 day club making course offered through Golfsmith Canada. I've subsequently made a driver, three hybrids, and a complete set of irons. I'd like to focus on an iron discussion. I had been using Titliest 704 CB's with TT DG R300 shafts. I never did hit these irons any good and probably maintained a 15-20 handicap. On a whim, I took my wife's Lady Jazz clubs fitted with lady flex graphite shafts to the range. WOW!! I hit these like a dream! Obviously, the shaft was better suited to my slow (never really been measured) and steady swing. The R300 shaft in my Titliest were too stiff. The stats say the TT DG R300's are for a 75-85 mph swings speed, with low trajectory and low torque, at 127 grams. BTW - I used to hit a hard fade (some may refer to it as a slice!), and lose all shots to the right.

I made a set of Snake Eyes Python irons (game improvement), using UST RV2 75 shafts (Reg flex). I do hit these a lot better, with my handicap down to a 10, but I'm still not convinced I've got the right recipe. The UST's are listed for a Regular at 65-75 mph, with a mid trajectory, low torque, at 81 grams. I still seem to be missing that fabulous zippy contact I was able to get with the wife's clubs. Oh, and the wife won't let me just use her clubs!! They did feel a little too whippy, but not by much.

I'm considering making a new set of irons using the Snake Eyes 600XC forged heads, but I don't know what shafts to put in them. I'm considering an extra light weight steel shaft like the new TT GS75 which is meant for 65-75 mph, with high launch, low torque, coming in at 86 grams.

I suppose the obvious thing to do is go and get properly fitted for the shafts, but I wanted to hear opinions about how to get that really zippy, pure speed out of a shaft. Is it the flex rating, the bend point (i.e. trajectory), shaft weight, torque?

Thanks for your comments.

Have you tried A flex. Somethimes referred to as senior flex. It is in between l flex and r flex.

You sound just like me... except I can't make clubs. ;)

I am looking at UST's myself. 85grams in a steel sure is light though. The funny thing is, when I was having a particulary frustrating session at the range, I picked up my wife's Taylormade driver and just smashed it.... It makes me think of getting something dumbed down for me like 'the perfect club'... or a nike lucky 13...

Anyway, if you're able to fit yourself, using measurements, strike tape and the whole deal, what do you think you're missing? Re-shafting is apparently really easy. (Or so I've been told) Why not try the USTs on a 6 iron (since you can do this yourself) and give a go at the range, and take it from there?

P.S.
Bad news about Jazz eh? I think they lost the marketing game... and their site blew chunks. Too bad, my wife will definitely miss them (I'm in Canada too).

PPS
Since you make clubs have you ever checked out Maltby? Or the game improvement irons are made by CER (golfworks.com)? They were recommended to me but I don't know a club maker. Apparently they're a kick butt club if you know a maker. (Price is right too).

Good luck! Personally at my age and swing speed, I'm looking at USTs. I can bench press quite a bit still, but I swing irons only at about 80ish MPH. (or I get wild). I prefer control while retaining the benefit of a lighter shaft. Just my two cents.

Ah, Colin from the other board :) I thought you were on both.

Yeah, CERs from Golfworks are really, really nice. I use Snake Eyes myself and love them, but I want to try some CERs some day. Right now I just have a 6-iron as a demo club. Forgiving but workable even for a hacker like me.

Anywho, back to your original questions:

Flex, bend point, and torque won't do anything to help you with a zippy swing speed, although flex may help something feel zippy. Lets just disregard torque altogether right now, as only the fastest swingers can get any type of a feel from different torques on irons.

A lower weight is what will allow you to swing the club faster. If you have a smooth swing and good, smooth tempo then a light shaft can allow you to swing the club faster withouth getting out of sync or losing control.

Now generally speaking a shaft that is too flexible can cause pulls and one that is too stiff can cause fades. This may be the case for you as you said you had regular shafts in your old irons and hit a fade.

The shafts you have now are pretty light but they do make lighter ones. So maybe you need something a bit lighter trimmed to A flex. If you can't get yourself professionally fitted then I am sure people here can give you some advice. Just let them know what you think your iron swing speed is as well as your tempo, your average shot type (fade, draw, straight), your club to carry 150 yards or your 6-iron carry (typical, not BEST SHOT EVER 6-iron) and your shot trajectory with you current set up. Also what is your desired trajectory going forward.

Allin - I have been looking at the A-flex shafts. I was thinking it might be the right shaft for me. I suppose I'll have to get my swing speed measured and go with what the stats say.

Colin - I was reading your post about perhaps reshafting your clubs and I couldn't help thinking you're in a similar situation as I. BTW - thanks for the Maltby recommendation. I checked out their site and it looks as though they make an iron which really appeals to me....the forgiving forged one at $10 cheaper/head than a comparable Snake Eyes head.

Cmarkmyers - which Snake Eyes iron head do you use - I'm considering the 600 XC's. As far as the shafts, I do believe that once fitted with the right shaft (probably just flex), then the shaft starts working ideally for you. I know the regular TT DG 300's weren't working. They felt stiff. They didn't feel like they were "loading and unloading" unlike my wife's shafts. After I get my swing speed measured, I might make a prototype iron before making an entire set. Great idea to utilize the experience and knowledge offered on this board. As a community, we're all experimenting in one way or another and to share our experiences is valuable for all.

I'd say take a couple of your clubs to golfsmith and have them run you through the monitor. Tell them your looking for the shaft you need to improve
your ability to hit the best with. Let them know you took THEIR club building class. They should have clubs with almost any combination of shafts and heads they sell to get you on the right path to find the best shaft for you.
Maybe if your brave enough you could sneek a couple of your wife's clubs from her bag. Tel her for testing only if she catches you.

Golfchief - Good concept with going to Golfsmith, only problem is that the Canadian Golfsmith is very, very different than the US version. The Canadian Golfsmith is strictly a showroom with a warehouse of inventory. They don't have ANY assembled clubs and no swing test areas. I believe our Golftown would be comparable to the US Golfsmith. What I'll have to do is go into the Golftown and pretend I'm interested in buying a new set of irons!!

I myself use the Quick Strike 2 Iron heads (

http://www.golfsmith.com/products/SE2910) . They are big game improvement heads and although I prefer something a bit more compact on my short irons the 5-iron in the Quick Strike is the only 5-iron I can hit consistently. I think they are being discontinued so I had to go with a 48* 600W ( http://www.golfsmith.com/products/SE2650 ) which I love. For a friend I made the Viper Tours ( http://www.golfsmith.com/products/SE2512 ) which are actually pretty forgiving and very workable. He is a very good player that has been through about 10 sets of irons over the past 5 months and claims these are by far the best he has ever used. I like them too. I have also made a CER from Golfworks.com that for me is better than the Viper Tours (it hits too high for my friend) and am waiting on a new Viper Mid head ( http://www.golfsmith.com/products/SE2514) . For my shafts on the Quick Strikes I love my TT Dynalites (high launch) but they may be heavier than you want. I put TT XL Lites (mid-launch) in all the other clubs and although I like them Gas Can who posts here and seems very well in the know doesn't seem to be a fan. Not to get off on too much of a tangent but I have been through many different clubs and working at a driving range I get to try out different things from customers all the time. Now I don't know if it is my frustration with other stuff, or the progress of my game, or the fact that now I am stuck with the irons I have made myself (I am not sure if self-made custom irons can be sold off that easily) but I simply LOVE Snake Eyes. But before jumping in and making your own equipment I highly recommend doing your research, being honest about your swing and it faults as well as your needs (in other words, you DON'T need extra stiff blades!), and reading Tom Wishon's, "Search for the Perfect Golf Club" before getting in too deep. Oh, and back to the 600XC's you are looking at, well, they look great and Golf Smith claims that they hit high, offer maximum forgiveness, and high workability. All of that combined is a huge claim but my experience with Golf Smith is that they seem pretty spot on. Still, you can save quite a few bucks going for the Viper Tours before they are sold out. Whatever you wind up with let me know and after I get that Viper Mid I will post what I think.

Some great info and suggestions here. The first thing I would do is find out my driver and 5 iron swing speeds so you can start looking for shafts that are the right flex for you. It *sounds* like an A flex might be right for you but better to find out your SS and eliminate some of the guessing. Next i'd pick up a couple of different shafts to experiment with and build a test club with each to see how the shafts perfom for you.

I'm not sure about Canada but in the US Golfsmith runs a "Friends & Family" sale the second week of December with some tremendous deals. I'll try to remeber to post the promo code here when the sale happens. Those Snake Eyes 600XC's the are $30US per head will probably be 50% off for the sale. Also a great time to pickup clubmaking tools at up to half off.