Titleist vs. Mizuno irons

[fusioncal]

I play the Ping G5s which are Game Improvement Irons. I'm getting offered to get any Mizuno clubs. Even though my handicap is high right now, I don't want to get the same clubs as my Pings because it would be a waste.

There are 4 new products from Mizuno, which are MP-52, MP-62, MX-100 & MX-200. If you're looking for one that plays somewhere along the lines of the G5, I think you should give the MX's a try.

Is there anything similar that's new and close to the MP-60s?

Umm...MP-62 perhaps? But don't take my word for it. Demo as many models as you can and find the "one".

[Zeph]

I'm getting a new iron set next year and Mizuno looks interesting. I'll probably buy them from USA (live in Europe) since I'll get them much cheaper. If the $ fall even more, the gain will be even better.

Anyways, I might wait and see if they release new sets next year, golf is very limited to the season over here, there aren't that many weeks left of the main season. But if I was to buy a set today, what would you recommend for my skill level? I'm well established at my hcp, I'm constantly changing my swing and scoring lower. The set I've got now is a cheap one, it would probably cost around $200 in USA, got it last year. They are not modified in any way and I find them a bit too heavy for my liking. The iron set is the only part of my bag (except the bag itself) that I'm not satisfied with, the wedges, woods, hybrids and driver are good enough.

I have limited places to demo, but will try any Mizuno set I run into at the stores.

[reif99]

I've still got my MP-29's I bought used about six years ago, but the grooves on the shorter irons are looking a little, well, flat.

I really like them, so on any close call on new irons I'm going to go Mizuno.

I've got questions, a little off topic:

It doesn't look like Mizuno is offering any "pure" blades - they all seem to have some kind of cavity or muscleback. Is this true?

Second, almost none of the top players are playing Mizuno any more (Luke Donald is the only one I found).

Any worries in that regard?

[907golfer12]

I've still got my MP-29's I bought used about six years ago, but the grooves on the shorter irons are looking a little, well, flat.

Well I think the MP-32's (?) are still in their line, they are just in their signature line of clubs. And it doesn't really matter what tour players are playing since they get paid to play the gear they do. So I would say no worried in that regard.

[erwintrace08]

Seems like Mizuno's are hands down the club to get. I just want to have a set of game improvement irons (Ping G5s) and a good player set (either MP 52, 60 or 62).

I saw the comparison on the new mizuno irons on a newsletter from edwin watts. I just still don't know. I will definitely go to my local Roger Dunn to check them each one out. There are so many to choose from with Mizuno.

e

[reif99]

Well I think the MP-32's (?) are still in their line, they are just in their signature line of clubs. And it doesn't really matter what tour players are playing since they get paid to play the gear they do. So I would say no worried in that regard.

The 32's are "Cut Muscle" - they have kind of a small cavity in the back.

And I won't argue the point about the pros, only to say that it seems to me the money you get paid for endorsements would be dwarfed by the amount of money (and other endorsements) you'd win if there were a significant difference in the performance of the clubs. So maybe at the end of the day there's not much difference.

[fusioncal]

I've still got my MP-29's I bought used about six years ago, but the grooves on the shorter irons are looking a little, well, flat.

I wouldn't call MP-67 not a pure blade. It's a blade but with Cut Muscle technology (as they say in marketing term). If you think that Cut Muscle provides forgiveness, well I urge you to think again (or just try it yourself). If in fact somehow it does, I'd say very little to none.

If you're looking for better deal you can find MP-32's price should be more reasonable by the end of the year. In addition to what 907golfer12 said, Mizuno doesn't go all the way in paying each and every golfer on tour to use their clubs. Another example is Miura. That doesn't make Mizuno or Miura a lesser golf club manufacturer. In fact Mizuno and Miura irons are highly regarded as some of the best.

[erwintrace08]

I'm actually looking for something more advanced than my Ping G5s. I'm getting a Mizuno set at a bargain, so I want these clubs to be a long-term club I can stick with for a while. Can you guys help and tell me the difference on these clubs as far as how they compare to each other and which are easier to hit vs. tougher? Trying to narrow down which to go for and I'm sure you guys know:

MP52s
MP57s
MP60s
MP62s

Thanks!
Erwin

[fusioncal]

I'm actually looking for something more advanced than my Ping G5s. I'm getting a Mizuno set at a bargain, so I want these clubs to be a long-term club I can stick with for a while. Can you guys help and tell me the difference on these clubs as far as how they compare to each other and which are easier to hit vs. tougher? Trying to narrow down which to go for and I'm sure you guys know:

What you have there on the list is the easiest to the toughest if you run them down from the top to bottom. Theoretically, MP-52 is the easiest due to its pocket cavity and cavity (they call them as pads) hence the dual-muscle marketing term. While the MP-57 is just full cavity back irons. MP-60 and 62 are half-cavity. The point is the more cavity they have, the easier they are to use.

The MP-52, I believe, is more advanced than G5. In regard to long term use it's all depend on the golfer. Someone who is superior at ball striking may not like something bulky and not workable. It's such a great feeling when you're really able to control where the ball goes (from my personal experience). But this workable feature may backfire for beginner to average golfers. I believe we've had the experience where we just spray the ball everywhere (again from my personal experience). If you're still unsure about which irons you should get, I strongly recommend you to demo them all. Remember to pick the right shaft as well. The right combination of the club head and shaft with your play style will improve your game tremendously. I hope that helps.

[M2R]

I'm actually looking for something more advanced than my Ping G5s. I'm getting a Mizuno set at a bargain, so I want these clubs to be a long-term club I can stick with for a while. Can you guys help and tell me the difference on these clubs as far as how they compare to each other and which are easier to hit vs. tougher? Trying to narrow down which to go for and I'm sure you guys know:

What you have there on the list is the easiest to the toughest if you run them down from the top to bottom.

Ralph Maltby publishes something called a MPF (Maltby Playability Factor) at www.ralphmaltby.com . I have listed (I hope accurately) the MPFs for the Mizuno MP line. Normally a five iron is tested but sometimes a six iron is used and I have noted that as well. Not all the irons you expressed interest in have been tested yet. For reference the Callaway iBird has a MPF of 1153 (Ultra Game Improvement), the Ping G5 #6 has a MPF of 806 (Super Game Improvement), the Titleist AP2 has an MPF of 551 (Game Improvement), and the 1973 Hogan Apex has a MPF rating of 459 (Conventional). This is a gross oversimplification on my part but the MPF gives a rough feel for how stable the clubhead is to miss hits toward the toe and heel and how easy it is to get the ball up in the air. It doesn’t indicate how well a club will play which is more a function of overall club fitting. I think Fusioncal is right on with the suggestion that demoing and fitting is really the way to go. Bottom line I don’t think Mizuno has ever been very good about the progression on these numbers, they are kind of all over the place. The 2008 Titleist line on the other hand has an impressively perfect progression from ZBs right up through the AP1s. I'm a big Mizuno fan but after doing some research, I'm more and more impressed with what Titleist has to offer. MP-30 ---461 MP-14 ---457 MP-60 ---451 MP-33 ---419 MP-32 #6412 MP-57 #6411 MP-67 #6381 MP-37 ---376 MP-11 ---373

[Yorke_Hunt]

That list there doesn't seem right, you've got the likes of the MP 57 classed as harder to hit than a true blade like the MP 33? And I thought the MP 60 was a slightly smaller head with a smaller sweetspot than the MP 57 and yet it's classed as easier to hit?
I was also under the impression the MP 67 was basically an MP 33 with a slight cut muscle, so how can it be so much harder to hit?

[bogeyhitter25]

I've been in need of some new irons. I've really looked into some Mizuno MX11s.

[erwintrace08]

So what is the replacement guys for the MP 57? Is there one because the 52s seem like GI irons and the 62s seem like closer to the 60s or 67s.

[M2R]

That list there doesn't seem right, you've got the likes of the MP 57 classed as harder to hit than a true blade like the MP 33? And I thought the MP 60 was a slightly smaller head with a smaller sweetspot than the MP 57 and yet it's classed as easier to hit?

That was the point I was trying to make, when it comes to Mizuno irons you really need to demo them and come to an honest evaluation for yourself. The other point is that in the MP line none of the clubs are

really that forgiving. When looking to go from ~800 to the ~430 range how big a deal are 30 points or so? Heck even the MX-25 and MX-900 don't make it out of the "Conventional" category. On the other hand I have a set of MacGregor V-Foil 1025m's that have a MPF of 600. That puts them in the "Game Improvement" category and they do pretty much play like shovels (compared to the MP-32's). However most people look at them and think they must be hard to hit. A discussion of the design features that makes irons (blade type) hard v.s. easy to hit can be found here I'm pretty sure the list is correct but you can go to Ralph Maltby's site and double check. I also think the MPF measurements and methods have some merit as I look over the numbers for the clubs I have owned and compare them to my own impressions.

[reif99]

I'm pretty sure the list is correct but you can go to Ralph Maltby's site and double check. I also think the MPF measurements and methods have some merit as I look over the numbers for the clubs I have owned and compare them to my own impressions.

Wow.

Is that article saying I should be playing the ball more towarrds the heel in my "traditional" blades (MP-29's)? Is there any way to determine the CG of an iron club face while it's shafted?

[M2R]

Wow.

Every club to some extent will tingle your hands if you miss the "sweet spot" (more or less the CG) by a lot and progressively lose less distance as you miss it by less and less. The players clubs tend to give more of this feedback and the game improvement clubs strive to minimize these effects. Buy just playing a club you should get a feel for where the "sweet spot" is. If you would like a visual representation you could always use impact tape or one of the other impact capture methods.

On the modern Mizuno's like yours and mine the sweet spot does progress toward the heel on the longer irons but only a little, maybe back 1/8" (or less) on the 3 iron. On the 1954 MacGregor MT Tourney's it is more like 3/8" toward the heel on the long irons. The line between a great shot and a shank starts to get pretty thin on those old 54's. Some people say you can locate the sweet spot by holding the shaft between your thumb and index finger and tapping the face of the iron until you find the spot where it is stable and "dead" feeling. If you mean put an iron on a machine and do precise measurements, I don't know if that is possible or not.

[Young Golf Prodigy]

mizuno's forging blows everyone away. and even i am a titleist guy. gotta give it to

For saying this, my friend, you are a god.

Mizuno has been a favorite of mine ever since I tried the forged a week after I got my, ahem, less than satisfying oversized irons from Cobra. Not that the irons are bad, but the offset is giving me a fairly heavy draw, that being, 4 yds right to left rather than straight. Oh, well when I get some cash I will get new ones. *sigh*

[youngskip40]

Looks like I'm bumping this thread a bit late, but I just had to chime in, in hopes that my conflicted mind might be helped here.

I've been a Titleist devotee for the last 10 years almost. In fact the only clubs in my bag that weren't stamped with that cursive "T" were my wedges and my putter. I could never afford the Scotty Cameron I always wanted, and always enjoyed my Cleveland wedges... although even that just changed with the purchase of two Spin Milled Vokey wedges.

But when it comes down to it, I've always been missing something with my irons. I have ALWAYS envied the Mizuno player, and I always wanted to play Mizuno's, but if I was really honest with myself, they never really offered a club I could play with on a daily basis. I hit the ball pretty well, but just like everyone else, I've had my days where I just can't find the sweetspot, and with a true players club my round is spoiled.


So now that I'm in the market to replace my DCI 990's, I'm noticing that nothing has changed as far as the gorgeous look & feel of Mizuno's, but turns out a lot has changed with respect to their playability.


I gave Titleist the benefit of the doubt and hit the AP2 first. Am I the only one who thinks those things feel like cast clubs? They are a pretty looking set of irons at address, but that's about where I stopped being impressed.


So now I've hit the Mizuno MP 52, and MP 57, and I'm having a hell of a time deciding between the two. I think I am leaning towards the 52's, but I was able to control my trajectory a tiny bit better with the 57's. On the other side, I felt like was able to hold my distances better on slight mishits with the 52's.


By the way, does anyone have any thoughts on where or how I can get a REAL feel for how these clubs play? When I say I've hit them, I mean I was able to try out both models at an outdoor range using the standard 6-iron demo only. At the very least, I want to be able to take a crack at the 3, 6 and 9 irons, but it seems like this is impossible at least where I live.