Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

[alcorn]

No offense but you miss read everything I said. Or attempted to say. Do I think switching to blades will make my game better NO WAY. I actually think it will make my game worse. At least up front. I want a club that will tell me when I hit the ball wrong not cover up for it thus improving my swing. Using your train of thought, or at least the way I am interpreting it, clubs don't matter. Right? So I am just as well off to purchase a $70 set of Willsons as I am buying a $1000 set of Mizunos?

No offense taken... but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Maybe I was a bit of an a$$ earlier. I apologize. But you'd be better off spending the money on lessons rather than new clubs if you wanna see improvement in your ball striking. I am a little bit perplexed though... In the case of your driver did you or did you not blame the club over your own technique? explain it to me again.. maybe i got it wrong.

[Primate]

No offense taken... but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Maybe I was a bit of an a$$ earlier. I apologize. But you'd be better off spending the money on lessons rather than new clubs if you wanna see improvement in your ball striking. I am a little bit perplexed though... In the case of your driver did you or did you not blame the club over your own technique? explain it to me again.. maybe i got it wrong.

I hit my driver perfect. My only issue my loft is to high. I think I need to drop to a 9 degree instead of the 10.5 I have now. I drive an average of 280 but when I am able to keep the ball down I can get to the 330 mark.To achieve this I have to tee a little lower and further back in my stance to keep the ball down.

If I would have purchased the 9 degree up front and and worked on my swing then I wouldn't need to purchase a new driver now. Instead I purchased a higher loft to make up for what I lacked in skill. I gave this as an example of why I was thinking of purchasing Irons (blades) out side of my current skill level. I guess you could say I am blaming my club but I think of it more as I made a poor choice which is why I am trying not to do the same with the irons..... I hope that makes it a little more clear?

[mikelaw]

I try to turn everyone I know onto them...I grew up with them and I am a firm believer in many people using them. I really believe for most players it fosters feedback which IMHO is KEY.

[65withatriple]

Fact is the pros play the clubs they are payed to play. They do not play the clubs that fit their game. If you knew the things I know you would understand. I am a clubfitter & teaching pro. I do know more about golf clubs than most touring professionals. They have guys like me build their golf clubs & they only worry about how it feels & flies in their hands. Why would they bother with the knowledge when they do not need. Understanding how a golf club works & fits the golf swing is not their job it is mine. It is fine with me if you guys feel the need to play blades I will take my miss hits to 10 feet anyday over feedback. Best of luck to all of you this season.

Wow!!!

I know a few pros personally who play blades and could choose cavity back of they wanted. Most brands have both. If a blade "feels and flies" (according to you) best for them, thats what they will play. Apparently their are other tour club fitters who disagree with you or there wouldnt be any blades on tour. I dont know many 9 hadnicappers whose miss hits are 10ft. from anything but the green.

[cigarnut81]

Ok guys your point is well taken. My handicap is high because we have a 7 month winter here. That is a long time to lose one's swing. Also you do not have to be great at something to teach it. "those who can do, those who can't teach" ever heard that? I guarantee everyone of you would bring your average score down by playing a more forgiving club. Even Tiger Woods miss-hits the ball 2 of 10 times. Why put the pressure on yourself to pure a shot just to clear a hazard? I know many people that build clubs for the pros & they tell me that most of them are playing what they are used to playing not what they could score better with. Next time you are watching a tour event take a look into the bags of the pros that are more consistent. You will see far more cavity-backs than you will muscle-backs. If anyone wants me to prove that a cavity back can be just as workable as muscle-back come on up to CO & I will show you how to hook a 7 iron 65 yards. Working the ball is about face angle & swing path not about center of gravity. That information is from the most talented club designer in the business.

[wachesawgolfer]

Fact is the pros play the clubs they are payed to play. They do not play the clubs that fit their game. If you knew the things I know you would understand. I am a clubfitter & teaching pro. I do know more about golf clubs than most touring professionals. They have guys like me build their golf clubs & they only worry about how it feels & flies in their hands. Why would they bother with the knowledge when they do not need. Understanding how a golf club works & fits the golf swing is not their job it is mine. It is fine with me if you guys feel the need to play blades I will take my miss hits to 10 feet anyday over feedback. Best of luck to all of you this season.

I am sorry but your post really makes no sense to me. "They do not play the clubs that fit their game",... "but only worry about how it feels and flies in their hands" Huh?

[iacas]

I guarantee everyone of you would bring your average score down by playing a more forgiving club.

I've tried. It doesn't work. My average score goes up with no-feel "forgiving" clubs.

Why put the pressure on yourself to pure a shot just to clear a hazard?

If you mis-hit the ball so badly that you can't "clear a hazard," no club will help you enough (except maybe those ironwood sets).

I have no pressure on myself "just to clear a hazard" when I'm playing any of my sets of irons. Also, and I didn't quote this, if Tiger could gain an advantage he'd switch. Simple as that. He feels he has the advantage with the clubs he's got.

Next time you are watching a tour event take a look into the bags of the pros that are more consistent.

What kind of goofy statement is that? Success on the PGA Tour depends on making putts.

And Tiger's the most consistent golfer in the planet. Blades. Geoff Ogilvy: blades. Etc.

Working the ball is about face angle & swing path not about center of gravity.

Center of gravity plays a large role in the launch angle and thus the ability to keep the ball low. Side to side it doesn't matter as much (hooking a 7-iron won't prove anything), but up and down it matters quite a bit. Spin, too, as was previously said.

[Leftygolfer]

Tiger Woods has not missed a shot in years. That is unbelieveable to say that he misses 2 of 10 shots. He misses left and right, He DOES NOT MISS the sweet spot. I remember Freddie Couples saying he does not remember the last time he actually miss hit a ball. That is the number one indicator of handicap. And I would say Tiger with his +8 or +10 handicap doesn't miss the sweet spot, EVER.

[cigarnut81]

If he does not miss the sweet spot then why did he leave his 5 iron short on 16 sunday? That is a miss-hit. Even the great Ben Hogan said he only hit two perfect shots a round. I am through with this. I am sorry you guys are unwilling to learn anything. There are many things that are false in this industry. Us poor americans believe too many things that are said on TV. Ask a pro how many times he actually hits it right on that needle tip called a sweet spot. You will be surprised.

[65withatriple]

Tiger Woods has not missed a shot in years. That is unbelieveable to say that he misses 2 of 10 shots. He misses left and right, He DOES NOT MISS the sweet spot. I remember Freddie Couples saying he does not remember the last time he actually miss hit a ball. That is the number one indicator of handicap. And I would say Tiger with his +8 or +10 handicap doesn't miss the sweet spot, EVER.

I agree with you...kinda. He may miss in once in a while but 20% of the time, NO WAY. Maybe 1 out of 100. I dont miss the sweet spot 1 out of 5 times and every player on tour does much better than that. I dont disagree that forgiving clubs will help the vast majority of golfers and I kinda smirk when I see a 15 handicapper hitting blades, but to each their own.

If the 2 best players in the world hit blades how can you argue against them. At least when you get to their level.

[65withatriple]

If he does not miss the sweet spot then why did he leave his 5 iron short on 16 sunday? That is a miss-hit. Even the great Ben Hogan said he only hit two perfect shots a round. I am through with this. I am sorry you guys are unwilling to learn anything. There are many things that are false in this industry. Us poor americans believe too many things that are said on TV.Watch this. No iacas this is not promotion. I would like to help everyone to know the truth.

Hitting a ball short dosent mean that if he hit a cavity back it would have been better. Hitting a heavy shot or hitting in "fat" cant be helped by a club head. I bet the ball still hit the center of the club face. As I stated before you have a valid point but cavity back irons wouldnt make Tiger or Phil better. If they did both would be using them. I bet both have forgotten more about golf clubs than you know!!!

[cigarnut81]

Hitting a ball short dosent mean that if he hit a cavity back it would have been better. Hitting a heavy shot or hitting in "fat" cant be helped by a club head. I bet the ball still hit the center of the club face. As I stated before you have a valid point but cavity back irons wouldnt make Tiger or Phil better. If they did both would be using them. I bet both have forgotten more about golf clubs than you know!!!

I will take that bet!!!!!!!!!!!

[Leftygolfer]

Maybe that was an overstatement about never missing the sweet spot. But to think that you know the pros could play better with more forgiving clubs is humourous. Lets just say that shot he hit it a grove too low. Do you think it would have been on the green with the other new nike iron? I am sure that the clubs are exactly what would give them the best chance at winning. It is really funny to say that.

should most people use blades. No. Should some people. Yes.

[RocketSauce]

I am through with this. I am sorry you guys are unwilling to learn anything. .

i guess we all cant be as smart as you think you are. we're just poor, unedumacated idiots when it comes to this golf stuff

[iacas]

Tiger Woods has not missed a shot in years.

He does, but not 2 of 10. Hell, when I'm playing half decently I don't miss 2 of 10 unless you count missing the sweet spot by less than a groove a "miss."

If he does not miss the sweet spot then why did he leave his 5 iron short on 16 sunday? That is a miss-hit.

No it wasn't.

Even the great Ben Hogan said he only hit two perfect shots a round.

Ben Hogan's standards are a bit differently, and they included trajectory, distance, and shot shape, not

just where contact was made on the face.

I am through with this. I am sorry you guys are unwilling to learn anything.

Wow, you're a great teaching pro. Bet you get a lot of repeat customers.

Dude, people have refuted your arguments, and instead of trying to refute back, you call us all stupid? Wow.

Ask a pro how many times he actually hits it right on that needle tip called a sweet spot. You will be surprised.

Oh, I see, we're measuring the sweet spot in microns and anything outside of about 1 or 2 microns (if we're generous) is a miss. If so, then yeah, Tiger probably "misses" 2 of 10 shots.

Tell me again how much better his 5-micron "misses" would be with cavity-back clubs?

I will take that bet!!!!!!!!!!!

You'd lose. He said he hit it like he wanted, but the wind hit it or something. He was only going for about 10 more yards and playing the ball to bounce and roll forward. Watch his reaction after he hits it - it's not like he mis-hit it. He's watching it expectantly.

[cigarnut81]

i guess we all cant be as smart as you think you are. we're just poor, unedumacated idiots when it comes to this golf stuff

I did not mean that. There is a lot of miss-information about golf clubs that should be debunked. The problem is that advertising plays too large a role in our society. Take the Air Force One driver for example. That is the most obvious one today, but there are many more.

[RocketSauce]

I did not mean that. There is a lot of miss-information about golf clubs that should be debunked. The problem is that advertising plays too large a role in our society. Take the Air Force One driver for example. That is the most obvious one today, but there are many more.

golly. something else none of us were aware of. thank you for educating us!

[iacas]

I did not mean that. There is a lot of miss-information about golf clubs that should be debunked. The problem is that advertising plays too large a role in our society. Take the Air Force One driver for example. That is the most obvious one today, but there are many more.

Oh, so you didn't mean we were too stupid to learn, you meant we were too stupid to not think for ourselves and to be advertising sponges. Got it.

In case you didn't notice, we had a thread where people were making fun of the Air Force One and it's stupid claims. Participation in that seems to have dropped, and people seem to have moved on to making fun of your stupid claims.