muskegman

Master "Forged vs. Cast" or "Blade vs. Game-Improvement" Iron Thread

1,428 posts in this topic

Here is an article on the forged vs. cast debate. I found this site to be very informative and answered some fundamental questions I had about forged vs. cast clubs. From the little I have read I found that generally speaking, forged clubs are either musleback or shallow cavity back because of the limitations inherant in the forging process. Therefore there is a certain feel associated with that design. Cast clubs are generally in the "game improvement" vein (with a deeper cavity) and therefore reflect a different feel. So the difference in feel is because of design, not necessarily the type of metals used. I'm sure some of you might say differently .

I'm sure I might be starting a war here. You might be interested in googling "difference forged cast" to find out more on this subject. I found it very interesting and look foreword to reading further about it.

------
Sorry, I forgot about the thread below this one that talks about forged and cast clubs...
Jeff
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I play Yonex Tour Forged Super ADX irons and had brought Cobra SSI to replace them but after 3 months my Yonex are back in my bag.Forged irons rule!!!
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The whole thing is a bit of a crapshoot these days, though. Titleist's 690.CB is a forged cavity-back. Cavity-back clubs have traditionally been cast, but that's no longer the case. So it's getting tougher to really know the difference... and frankly, that's OK by me.
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The article referred to by Muskegman (forged vs. cast) reinforces my belief that the greatest differences in modern clubs rests between the golfer's ears.
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I would have to say that I like the forged they juust have the best feel and look. I like players irons not game improvment so I usually like the forged anyway.
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When I started playing golf, I bought a set of MacGregor/Jack Nicklaus forged blades from my uncle. I didn't know the first thing about cavity backs or blades, and I learned with them. I think they helped to make me the player I am today.

I've long sided with "better" clubs than I am as a player. Ping Zings or Eye 2s may be very forgiving clubs, for example, but I never thought they'd help me improve as much as playing, say, my Titleist 962Bs or my 680s or my old Mac blades. Put another way, I kinda figured that if I played clubs designed for a bogey golfer, I'd probably always be a bogey golfer, and I wouldn't learn the finer points of shotmaking, etc.

What's your take on this? Do you play clubs that are "better" than you? Do you play clubs at your current level? Maybe you've managed to use game improvement irons to get to a really low handicap. What's your philosophy on choosing equipment?
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More on my point from a conversation I just had with Jeff, who is considering a move from Titleist 804s to Titleist 690.CBs.

Jeff: I look forward to seeing what folks have to say. FWIW, I was kind of eager to check the 690's out. I've seen a lot of serious players with them in their bag.

Erik: i've always kinda felt that if you want to stay an 18 handicapper cuz you just enjoy playing golf, go ahead
play that equipment that maximizes enjoyment
but me, i enjoy improving, learning a new shot, controlling the shape and trajectory and pulling it off
tough to do that with clubs that are effectively working against you
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Hmmm. I conditionally agree with your point. The condition being, I think a mid-handicapper (10-15) who is going to take the time and effort (practice, lessons) to become a better player could show improvement using blades that are meant for a "better" player.

But, take that same skill-level golfer and subtract the commitment to improve. Blades aren't going to do anything but make the game harder when he/she does play.

I know you learned to play using fairly unforgiving irons. So did I. But I think that has to do more with drive to succeed and ability to learn. If you'd been gifted a set of Ping Eye2s, I think you'd still have turned into a pretty good stick.

The more I see, the more I think that equipment is incredibly personal. Everyone's seen the poser with a $$$$ set of blades and the latest driver that can't break 100, and everyone's played with the guy using 7 clubs, including a chipper and a putter that looks like it came out of the barrell at Putt-Putt, who shot a smooth 74. The bottom line: Get fit. If Jeff's going to go to 690s (which are nice, but not very forgiving), he'll have the most success if he gets the right shaft installed. And, he'll also be able to ask the fitter if the 690s are really right for him.

[All that said, the 690.CBs are such sweet-looking clubs that I wish I had the time to practice enough to feel confident with them! I enjoyed playing with them earlier this year, but my scores absolutely suffered. Maybe next year...]
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I have the Titleist 804s, and they are the best clubs for me. I'm probably never going to be able to play enough to move into the 5-handicap area. I'm probably going to be stuck around 10-15 my entire golf career, and I think the 804s will work just fine.

If I had time to play more, I would definitely move up to the 690s possibly, but I know in my heart that my golfing days are probably going to be less and less over the years. I only get to play once or twice a week now, and there aren't any little "Thrashers" running around yet. Once that happens, I might as well retire from the game because I barely have enough time for my wife right now...let alone a couple kids.

So in closing, I feel I have the right clubs.

Any Titleist club is probably better than me by the way. :/
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You Guys point out some really good points, I know for me, I got a set of ping i3+ in my hands when i was about a 18 and over a couple years I have got down to a single digit, but it's time for me to move on from the pings, the bigger oversided, very offset makes for a forgving club but not a shotmakers club, so come spring time I will be in the marketing for something with a thiner topline, less forgving, more workable club.I think with all the clubs that are pushing the traditional blade to newer areas..like the titleist 735 cm,cleveland cg2, mizuno mp-32, You can get a very workable club, and get that look you want at address, without having to give up all the forgiviness of blades, maybe in a few years if i get down somewhere near stratch, it'll be time for full blades.
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I don't think you should play irons that are "better" for you. I think you should play the irons that "fit" you. I think Don's point is correct that the person has to strive to get better for this to even matter.

I'm a firm believer in making your practice sessions as difficult as possible, which in turn should make your playing easier. So, when I practice, I always grab my blades and persimmon woods to practice. But playing (not practicing) a club that is "better" than you (eg, you have a harder time hitting it) just because a "better" player should play those doesn't make sense to me.
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Practice doesn't make perfect - Perfect practice makes perfect.

What I started playing golf 2 years ago I had Ping G2's and they are a great beginners club because they are so forgiving but I couldn't feel the type of shot I was hitting and every shot felt the same good or bad.

I switched to my Mizuno's after a demo day with them a love the immediate feedback. Now my practice has improved because I can feel immediately if I've hit a good or bad shot. This has also improved my playing because I focus better on each shot now.

I don't know if I'd ever go to a full blade just because a little forgiveness is nice.
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Practice doesn't make perfect - Perfect practice makes perfect.

I wonder how your Mizunos compare to the 690.cb's. A little research might be in order on this one. I get a fair amount of feedback from the 804.OS irons. I also wonder about the difference there.

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I wonder how your Mizunos compare to the 690.cb's. A little research might be in order on this one. I get a fair amount of feedback from the 804.OS irons. I also wonder about the difference there.

By definition, feedback also includes the flight and shape of the shot in addition to the vibrations that come through the shaft. Also by definition, a club that's more forgiving will provide less feedback because it'll attempt to "correct" the flight and shape of bad shots.

(Off-topic: the 690s are some of the most playable "player's" clubs out there. Even the 680s are eminently more playable than my old MacGregors.)
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Interesting...I've never even really given it much thought. As I've played more and more through the years I've always looked for clubs that were much more playable. When I went from my Titleist DCI's to the Mizuno-Pro II's I immediatley felt the difference. I also felt that it was time to make that change.

My own personal opinion is that you should be slightly ahead of where you want to be. Of course I'm not taking my own advice right now. I really feel like I should be hitting pure forged blades now. The Pro-II's are a hybrid and I think I could benefit from the playability of the MP-32's or MP-37's.

Staying ahead of where you want to be will keep you working towards something and at the same time less frustrated than the 25 handicapper hitting Hogan Apex irons.
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I used to have irons "better" than me - the combo TP set. Took a step back this season to the LT2's and don't regret it...
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Every once in a while I feel like I shouldn't be hitting my Mizuno MP30/33s, like "maybe I should just get some Pings and make life a littlee easier." Then I'll hit a shot that tracks like a dart and feels like a marshmellow exploding off my MP30 6-iron and all is forgotten. Man that's a good feeling.
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A pure struck iron is the greatest feeling i have ever found.....okay well maybe the second greatest feeling, but here is neither the time nor the place to discuss that....
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