Weight Shift: Driver vs. Wedge

[jambalaya]

I used the two extremes in the title to illustrate my problem. The long swing of a driver gives me more time to make a weight shift the the front leg. I can actually make a deliberate motion, planting the left foot as I move my hip forward a bit, and wait for that action to happen before bringing my club through on the downswing. If I get that left leg posted what a difference. I really feel myself turning on the left leg.

I can't get the solid feeling of posting for my wedge and for that matter many of my other clubs. It is as if I don't have enough time to get the leg posted. I feel like I have to go in slow motion to get it done. Thus I am not sure that it gets done properly most times.

There are all kinds of thoughts on weight shift:

Make the correct backswing and the weight shift just happens.

Bump the hips to get started.

Plant the left foot.

I just feel almost like I have to have more delay in the downswing to get it right. It just drives me crazy. When I throw a ball it all comes so natural. I step and plant then throw. When batting in baseball you can pick up the left foot a bit and plant. Why can I not translate this to swinging a golf club? What is going on here? Simply trying to bump the hip forward is not working for me. I've read so much about weight shift but nothing has really helped me to consistently get it right.

[MeltDownZ]

In a perfect world, the Pitching Wedge thru Driver should be swung with virtually the same timing and swing - with adjustments for the longer club length. It is the length and club shaft/weights that generate the extra club head speed. So, the fact that you seem to have a lot more time for the driver suggests that you may have a timing issue throughout your full set of clubs and that you are giving yourself more time with the driver that you use to address the weight shift.

Soooo, let's separate the timing issue because it makes things too confusing. You should be able to get a good weight shift throughout your set up clubs. With your body, you have 2 primary motions: weight shift and rotation. Weight shift is lateral, rotation is around. So, a swing path that is a bit more upright will be more lateral facilitating a better weight shift. But, I don't really think you can 'force' yourself to do this. Instead, I want you to adjust things in this way for your shorter clubs: Bring your ball position slightly back toward your right foot. That means a bit closer to you and bit further from the target. Take a slightly weaker grip which actually allows your right hand to operate a little closer to your right thigh play a much more powerful role during the swing. Now, with these 2 adjustments at setup, just swing normally re-adjusting your mental expectation that your swing will be coming down closer to your right thigh instead of out to in. Since your swing thrust is now traveling closer to your lower hip core, you should feel that you are in a very powerful position to drive your weight forward with your right leg and hips. With this swing correction, you should be able to use a better weight shift with all your clubs. (Warning: no part of your swing mechanics should dominate your swing - DON'T try and drive your weight with your hips or right leg. The new setup should just make it happen a little bit more naturally)

To summarize, a couple of simple setup changes allow you to swing more upright, close to your body (right hip/thigh), and center of gravity. Since your swing thrust is now traveling more laterally and close to your body, it is a lot easier to shift your weight.

This would all be opposed to a swing that is more around, further from your right hip, traveling over and around your mid-core. A swing like this leaves the hips and center of gravity behind.

[jambalaya]

In a perfect world, the Pitching Wedge thru Driver should be swung with virtually the same timing and swing - with adjustments for the longer club length. It is the length and club shaft/weights that generate the extra club head speed. So, the fact that you seem to have a lot more time for the driver suggests that you may have a timing issue throughout your full set of clubs and that you are giving yourself more time with the driver that you use to address the weight shift.

Thanks. I'll give it a try.

[JackLee]

The amount of weight shift depends on width of stance and ball position. I use a narrow stance so I don’t have much weight shift, even with the driver, yet my body gets to the perfect impact position every time.

My hips do lead my downswing but I never think about that. I use left shoulder control, which makes the rest of my body movements automatic, including making my hips lead my downswing. By using this key, my swing does seem as natural as a baseball swing.

Left shoulder control is the Master Key in “The Golf Swing and It’s Master Key Explained” by Noel Thomas. I have mentioned this instruction several times in this forum, but be assured that I have no financial interest in it. I’m just passing the info along for those who want to try it.

It is not the only way to make a good swing, but it is certainly the easiest way I have found.

[jaggy13]

The amount of weight shift depends on width of stance and ball position. I use a narrow stance so I don’t have much weight shift, even with the driver, yet my body gets to the perfect impact position every time.

I think Jacklee is onto something

after reading your explanation I was going to ask if you where making a full shoulder turn. I know sometimes if I don't make a full turn, I get a little "army" and find myself finishing shots in the back seat or off ballance. Get a good shoulder turn to start the swing and a steady tempo and the rest should happen as its supposed to. (given that you have solid fundamentals.)

[jambalaya]

The amount of weight shift depends on width of stance and ball position. I use a narrow stance so I don’t have much weight shift, even with the driver, yet my body gets to the perfect impact position every time.

Well I didn't read the article or book you referenced but I did try keying on the left shoulder rather than what I have been doing which was keying the right shoulder and hands, throwing them at the ball. That, along with another minor but important swing change resulted in the best range hitting session of my life. Weight shift just kinda fell into place somehow. My fat shots dissappeared. A really surreal experience.

[lolzzlolzz]

I used the two extremes in the title to illustrate my problem. The long swing of a driver gives me more time to make a weight shift the the front leg. I can actually make a deliberate motion, planting the left foot as I move my hip forward a bit, and wait for that action to happen before bringing my club through on the downswing. If I get that left leg posted what a difference. I really feel myself turning on the left leg.

It's good that you ask this, because Ben Hogan described the exact same problem in his book 5 Lessons. To quote:

When you shorten your arc, you have less time on your swing to get your left hip out of the way. That is why I make-and suggest you make-a mild modification when you are playing the clubs from the six-iron down to the wedge: GET THE LEFT HIP OUT OF THE WAY BEFORE YOU BEGIN TO PLAY YOUR STROKE. You do this by setting your right foot at address...

So, basically, you use an open stance for the iron clubs from the six iron down to the wedges. The shorter the club, the more open your stance should be. You will lose distance, because you have placed a further restriction on the length of your arc, but you will make up for it in accuracy and timing.

[MeltDownZ]

It's good that you ask this, because Ben Hogan described the exact same problem in his book 5 Lessons. To quote:

I'll share some thoughts that are totally my own observation on this: I fully agree on the procedure of being a little more open as you get to the shorter clubs but I have my own thoughts on why it helps. When you are a bit open, your swing plane is closer to your right side. Your left elbo is forced to be a bit more tucked into the body as it advances across your right side (like Hogan suggests as a general rule) and your left elbo is less likely to move away and around your body. (That keeps you from being laid off at the top and throwing the club out in the downswing - helps you keep under the plane). This promotes a nice 1 piece take away and puts your right hand a little closer to the action as well as making your swing plane more vertical which accomidates the naturally more vertical plane required by the shorter clubs.

Think of it this way: With a shorter club, you are a little bit lower at address - you're not standing tall like you would with a driver. To accomidate this, your right shoulder is forced to be lower and in a less powerful position. Opening up your stance returns your right side closer to the ball and returns the leverage that it lost when you reached down with your right shoulder. I personally believe Hogan liked this because, unlike Noel Thomas, Hogan's key was the hips followed by hitting as hard as he could (w/ Driver) with his hands (after he dropped into the slot) and the open position put his right hand in a much more powerful position with the shorter clubs. Hogan also points out that he hits as hard as he can with both hands - not just the right. Since so many people are very right side dominant, I believe any of the left side control theories that help you strengthen and shape the shot with your left are good - but only for drills. Left side exercises and left hand lead have been around a very long time. One of the greatest pioneers of the game, Bobby Jones, spoke it about a half century ago. Even John Daly speaks about it. His warm up routine is 50 left hand only chips. But, all the accomplished teachers and golfers speak to the primary key as being balance - where not one aspect of the swing motion dominates. Sometimes they say it directly, sometimes indirectly. Being perfectly balanced, relaxed, and smooth - at setup and throughout the swing - is the best way to let the dynamics of the golf swing occur unimpeaded by our natural instincts to control the club.