Swing plane insanity

[Mr.Wedge]

You know, I am beginning to think maybe my lats are not big enough. Keying on the armpits isn't working for me for some reason. The clubhead under the armpits drill has just been a disaster. It completely throws me off. I understand why it is fundamentally a good approach but I am apparently doing something wrong. Maybe I need to put a volleyball under there. The torso has to rotate without the left shoulder turning in but rather following the rotation of the core. Simple concept. How do I work that out?

The easiest way to learn this feel I have found is to get two boulder sized shooting marbles, place one in each armpit while doing normal activity around the house and don't drop them. Once getting accustomed to this, start doing exercises such as pushup with the marbles in place, then do dry swinging. Soon you will understand the feels associated with shoulder leverage.

Lats don't have to be big. It is just a matter ultimately of how much c-force you put on the club. Stronger lats will enable more. The key is to not let that left lose leverage. Leverage it against the upper ribs and leave it there. The pec will pad that leverage. Learn to rotate with both marbles in place and you will be making a very solid rotation.

[jambalaya]

The easiest way to learn this feel I have found is to get two boulder sized shooting marbles, place one in each armpit while doing normal activity around the house and don't drop them. Once getting accustomed to this, start doing exercises such as pushup with the marbles in place, then do dry swinging. Soon you will understand the feels associated with shoulder leverage.

How about a couple of golf balls? Too big? I don't shoot marbles much these days.

[jambalaya]

I gotta say, this has been a really good thread for me I think. It explains a lot of things now that I can put it in thoughts that I understand. If you let that left shoulder turn in on your backswing, it is very difficult to keep your arms from moving first in the downswing creating a timing issue with the body turn. If you keep the shoulder in place it is hard for the arms to move without starting with a lower body move or turn of your torso. It reduces greatly or eliminates the need to think about weight shift or consciously perform a weight shift. If you let the front shoulder in, you don't have to shift weight to get the club moving, you can use your arms. Keeping the shoulder in place allows your coil to work for you in producing a better downswing. Now, if I could only turn these thoughts into a swing.

[Mr.Wedge]

How about a couple of golf balls? Too big? I don't shoot marbles much these days.

Too big. I like marbles or ball bearings about 3/4 to 1 inch because they offer little friction requiring you to learn how to first "squeeze" them in place, eventually learning to not squeeze, but "glue the armpit flesh together.

[Mr.Wedge]

I gotta say, this has been a really good thread for me I think. It explains a lot of things now that I can put it in thoughts that I understand. If you let that left shoulder turn in on your backswing, it is very difficult to keep your arms from moving first in the downswing creating a timing issue with the body turn. If you keep the shoulder in place it is hard for the arms to move without starting with a lower body move or turn of your torso. It reduces greatly or eliminates the need to think about weight shift or consciously perform a weight shift. If you let the front shoulder in, you don't have to shift weight to get the club moving, you can use your arms. Keeping the shoulder in place allows your coil to work for you in producing a better downswing. Now, if I could only turn these thoughts into a swing.

Instead of thinking of USING the arms, I think in terms of providing just enough tension in the arms so that when the torso begins rotating, the arms go with it without backlagging.

What you say about the weight shift is accurate, but the key is to keep the right knee flexed precisely the same degree as at address. If it remains flexed and kicked in a tad, the lower body will shift correctly as you change direction in the torso.

[wachesawgolfer]

whaaaaat!? Have you got double jointed elbows? I have been following this discussion with great interest. I have been having swing plane and over the top insanity as of late leading to some hellishly bad ball striking. Connectivity is elusive, coil and hip-shoulder turn sequence out of sequence. Hell, everything was a mess. I did something in my last round that I am not sure contradicts you and wedge or agrees with it.

When I say reverse the hands, I mean simply lower one hand so they are now on top of each other, thumb of one hand touches bottom of other hand, then press in so back of hands will meet when you level the hands. Its like praying with your hands but instead of the palms touching reverse them so the backs touch. You are not turning the thumbs down. the thumbs are still on top when the back of ther hands meet. This position locks the arms and hands out of the swing so you can turn fully back against the lower body and then with the left arm held back perform the downswing with the lower body leading. You can really do the same thing with your right hand holding your left wrist with the left arm extended. What slicers/pullers do is extend back their arms in the backswing, without a core turn/coil and then throw their arms out at the top with little or no weight shift forward. Thses drills give you the feel of the coiled move back and through once the arms are locked out.

[jambalaya]

Instead of thinking of USING the arms, I think in terms of providing just enough tension in the arms so that when the torso begins rotating, the arms go with it without backlagging.

Yep, right knee flex is important. Been executing that pretty well. I am going to get some marbles and do a lot of slow motion work at home. That old habit will be hard to break. Thanks for the help. Great thread for me.

[jambalaya]

When I say reverse the hands, I mean simply lower one hand so they are now on top of each other, thumb of one hand touches bottom of other hand, then press in so back of hands will meet when you level the hands. Its like praying with your hands but instead of the palms touching reverse them so the backs touch. You are not turning the thumbs down. the thumbs are still on top when the back of ther hands meet. This position locks the arms and hands out of the swing so you can turn fully back against the lower body and then with the left arm held back perform the downswing with the lower body leading. You can really do the same thing with your right hand holding your left wrist with the left arm extended. What slicers/pullers do is extend back their arms in the backswing, without a core turn/coil and then throw their arms out at the top with little or no weight shift forward. Thses drills give you the feel of the coiled move back and through once the arms are locked out.

Ahh, you scared me for a sec there. This sounds like an excellent drill for my problem.

[jambalaya]

Ahh, you scared me for a sec there. This sounds like an excellent drill for my problem.

When I say reverse the hands, I mean simply lower one hand so they are now on top of each other, thumb of one hand touches bottom of other hand, then press in so back of hands will meet when you level the hands. Its like praying with your hands but instead of the palms touching reverse them so the backs touch. You are not turning the thumbs down. the thumbs are still on top when the back of ther hands meet. This position locks the arms and hands out of the swing so you can turn fully back against the lower body and then with the left arm held back perform the downswing with the lower body leading. You can really do the same thing with your right hand holding your left wrist with the left arm extended. What slicers/pullers do is extend back their arms in the backswing, without a core turn/coil and then throw their arms out at the top with little or no weight shift forward. Thses drills give you the feel of the coiled move back and through once the arms are locked out.

This is going to become a favorite drill for me. For anyone who wants to feel the proper connection of the arms to the torso in the backswing, this drill does it. I only wish I could swing a club with my hands crossed like that.