Blades to improve ball-striking

[NM Golf]

I disagree. I learned using blades and am thankful for that (not that anyone planned it). It taught me to value good ballstriking and it taught me to learn to interpret the feelings the clubhead provides (either for a small in-round change or when practicing).

To each there own, I learned how to play on game improvement irons and went through several levels of lessening forgiviness until I got to where I am now. I love my blades and will never go back, but I am thankful for the extra forgiveness my former clubs allowed me because it made the game more enjoyable at the time. Neither way is wrong, just different.

Just what do you define as being average for a player?

The average player from what I see working at a golf course shoots around 100, rarely practices, and only plays a few times a year. Someone like that is doing themselves a disservice using blades. The average golfer is someone who doesn't take it too seriously and is just out to have some fun. They will have infinately more fun if their irons forgive some off center hits since that is what most of their shots will be.

I remember back when I first started playing. I sold my starter set to someone to help cover the cost of a new set of Ping Zing 2's. I was about a 15 handicap at the time and a buddy let me borrow his set of blades until my new Pings arrived. Wow did that suck. I did not have the ball striking skills neccessary for those clubs. Seemed like every shot I hit was terrible. In fact, I actually only played a couple of times with those clubs and finally just gave up and waited until my Pings came in to play again. It is this encounter with blades that shaped my opinion about them. I guess what I am saying simply is this. If you are the average recreational golfer (which most people are) who plays 10-15 times a year, rarely or never practices, and consistantly shoots in the 90's or 100's then you do not have nor will develop the ballstriking skills neccessary to play blades whether you buy them or not. I mean if you are a serious golfer and want to put the time in and have some natural ability then go for it, buy yourself some blades. But for most golfers blades are the wrong way to go. (My Opinion) I still point out the fact that blades are a minority even on the PGA Tour. That alone to me says they are not neccessary to becoming a great ballstriker nor needed to work the ball properly. And I say all of this, and I use blades!

[deronsizemore]

As stated, I'm not really practicing more, however, I can say that I'm concentrating on shots more... as I know(perhaps subconsciously) that I have little to no forgivness on poorly struck shot. It may be a mental thing that is not for everyone.. but it seems to work for me.

If it's working for you, great. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Golf's a funny game and if blades make you concentrate more and you see better shots as a result, go for it. I just think you're in the minority on this one and that most golfers will be grossly mistaken if they think blades will improve their ball striking.

[odstore]

I think a lot of people underestimate how fun it is to be able to work the ball in any way you want without a problem. There's always so much focus on the lack of forgiveness but no emphasis on the versatility. Every once in awhile I hit a shot that I wouldn't have even bothered attempting with cavities and it really makes your day when you pull it off.

[deronsizemore]

I think a lot of people underestimate how fun it is to be able to work the ball in any way you want without a problem. There's always so much focus on the lack of forgiveness but no emphasis on the versatility. Every once in awhile I hit a shot that I wouldn't have even bothered attempting with cavities and it really makes your day when you pull it off.

This is another thing I hear a lot that I don't really understand. You're saying it's easier to work the ball with blades than cavities? Maybe ever so slightly but not much. If you can work the ball with a blade, you can work the ball with a cavity. It all comes down to your swing path and an open or closed clubface relative to that path as to your ability to work the ball. So, if blades somehow make it easier to change your swing path and clubface at impact, then I'd love to see proof of that.

[shredfit]

This is another thing I hear a lot that I don't really understand. You're saying it's easier to work the ball with blades than cavities? Maybe ever so slightly but not much. If you can work the ball with a blade, you can work the ball with a cavity. It all comes down to your swing path and an open or closed clubface relative to that path as to your ability to work the ball. So, if blades somehow make it easier to change your swing path and clubface at impact, then I'd love to see proof of that.

Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one too.

My natural iron ball flight has always been a draw to straight. I could never hit a fade with my CB irons by using typical methods... open stance/outside in/high finish etc etc... (it always resulted in a pull... or straight). That is, until I started using blades... I can hit a slight fade now, perhaps because blades don't have the forgiveness of perimeter weighting? Not sure, but it's easier for me to work the ball with them.

[Stuart]

I'd have to agree with you on that. I'm skeptical of people gushing about how they all of a sudden can work the ball either which way with ease now that they have blades. It just doesn't work like that. Most people are just trying to make solid contact. And how many people out there truly hit fades and draws with equal confidence?? Be honest. I hit a baby draw most of the time if I'm not hitting it pretty much straight. I don't hit a fade unless I have to, which usually means I'm behind something and that's my only option of advancing the ball. I play the Titleist ZB irons, which in my opinion are the best of both worlds. I get a little help with my long irons and I get the sweet feeling of blades with my short irons, which (incidentally) are the best part of my game. I hit a lot of greens in regulation. Hitting the ball in the middle of the club face with an 8 iron blade isn't an issue for me. If it is for you, then stay away from blades. Period. If you are looking for a club that will give you instant feedback then maybe you want to get another set of clubs that are blades, but my bet is that you are not going to want to use them during your saturday 4-some if money is on the line. They would be more use as a training tool possibly. Just my 2 cents, which incidentally, means nothing. :)

This is another thing I hear a lot that I don't really understand. You're saying it's easier to work the ball with blades than cavities? Maybe ever so slightly but not much. If you can work the ball with a blade, you can work the ball with a cavity. It all comes down to your swing path and an open or closed clubface relative to that path as to your ability to work the ball. So, if blades somehow make it easier to change your swing path and clubface at impact, then I'd love to see proof of that.

[immts007]

I guess what I am saying simply is this. If you are the average recreational golfer (which most people are) who plays 10-15 times a year, rarely or never practices, and consistantly shoots in the 90's or 100's then you do not have nor will develop the ballstriking skills neccessary to play blades whether you buy them or not.

So I don't know what to think.

I've played my 'new' Wilson Staff Goosenecks 3 times now and I love them. I hit them just as well, or better than my cavity back Lynx Black Cats. And they feel better, more balanced and buttery in the swing and through impact. I start to have more trouble with them around 7&6i, but no more so than with the Lynx's. I'm still a new golfer, 43 and been playing for a little over 2 years and right now I shoot right around 95 - 100 on average. I dropped about 10 strokes during the course of this season and 10 the year before. So I'm not a 'good' golfer (yet) - but my initial impression is that these clubs feel better, look better, and hit farther. I think the fact that they look so elegant at address as opposed to the bulky look of the cavity back inspires a little confidence as well. Just my naive thoughts on the matter as a very new-to-blades hacker.

[deronsizemore]

Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one too.

Man! We're 0-2 now! What's up with that?

My natural iron ball flight has always been a draw to straight. I could never hit a fade with my CB irons by using typical methods... open stance/outside in/high finish etc etc... (it always resulted in a pull... or straight). That is, until I started using blades... I can hit a slight fade now, perhaps because blades don't have the forgiveness of perimeter weighting? Not sure, but it's easier for me to work the ball with them.

The only thing that comes to mind is the shaft being a different length, or the loft and lie being different between the clubs you were using. Did you have those checked?

If you are able to fade your blades and you put the exact same swing on the ball with your cavity backs, the ball has no other choice but to have the same shot shape as with your blades. It's just not possible to swing a club outside to in with an open clubface and have the ball not fade. If cavity back irons were that good, majority of golfers would be much better at this game.

[shredfit]

The only thing that comes to mind is the shaft being a different length, or the loft and lie being different between the clubs you were using. Did you have those checked?

Actually, I know for a fact my blades(Titleist 681's) have slightly more loft per club than my Callaways CB's...(ie Titleist 48* PW/Callaway 46* PW). Only other difference is that the 3 iron blade is just a little shorter(1/2 inch?) than the Callaway 3 iron, which I actually like... I've just always had problems trying to fade my irons

[rebby]

This is another thing I hear a lot that I don't really understand. You're saying it's easier to work the ball with blades than cavities? Maybe ever so slightly but not much. If you can work the ball with a blade, you can work the ball with a cavity. It all comes down to your swing path and an open or closed clubface relative to that path as to your ability to work the ball. So, if blades somehow make it easier to change your swing path and clubface at impact, then I'd love to see proof of that.

Have you tried this? Blade back to back w/a cavity? Having recently switched from cavity backs (PING i3 blades, a true cavity back despite the name) to Titleist ZM's, I can say, unequivocally, that it's easier to work the ball

consistently with a blade than a cavity back. The ball just reacts off the club face differently which, for me anyway, makes it easier to work the ball right or left. The side spin is also more consistent, thus more predictable with the ZM's than the i3's. Therefore, I'm a lot more confident making these iron shots than I was before. This is the exact same behavior that I experienced years ago when I'd swap my set of PING Eye-2's with my buddies Hogan Apex's. After a round or two I found that I had a lot more "shots" with the Hogan's than I did with my beloved Eye-2's. Conversely, my buddy's experience was the exact opposite. The whole blade vs cavity back discussion on workability actually reminds me of the current driver situation. These 460cc drivers are great but I find that I have a lot easier time making the ball turn over with my vintage Taylor Made Burner than I do with my new FT-5. Given designs have their advantages and disadvantages, irons are no exception and no one iron design is right for everybody no more than one driver design could be.

I'd have to agree with you on that. I'm skeptical of people gushing about how they all of a sudden can work the ball either which way with ease now that they have blades. It just doesn't work like that. Most people are just trying to make solid contact.

I'll agree with you on your first point. If you can't make a ball turn over both ways with a cavity back, it's highly unlikely that you'll be able to do it with a blade. Unless, of course, the additional offset found on many cavity backs are the primary reason that you can't get the ball to turn from left to right. I find that many of today's GI irons have way more offset than I'm comfortable with.

And how many people out there truly hit fades and draws with equal confidence?? Be honest.

Likely, not many do. I'm in the minority on this one though. My natural shot is a very very soft draw. Unless I'm deliberately turning the ball over the vast majority of shots that I hit the ball flight appears very straight. You have to really pay attention to see it move either direction. Because my natural shot is pretty straight, I'm very confident in moving the ball in either direction. In a given round of golf, I find that I'll hit a fade just as often as I hit a draw. If a situation presents itself when there is no advantage to moving the ball one way or another, I'll generally "take dead aim" and trust that the ball with go there. Otherwise, I'll shape the shot to my advantage.

I find that shaping shots can be a major advantage on the course and I really enjoy the consistency that I've gained with my ZM's. That's not to say that blades are for everybody though, they just work better for me... Oh, and I since this is somewhat of a blades vs cavity backs discussion... Did I mention that the feel with blades is awesome!?!?!?

[odstore]

Well said.

[wrx_junki]

Thinking of getting some used blades to practice with at the range. Are Mizuno MP-33's a good choice?

[deronsizemore]

Have you tried this? Blade back to back w/a cavity? Having recently switched from cavity backs (PING i3 blades, a true cavity back despite the name) to Titleist ZM's, I can say, unequivocally, that it's easier to work the ball

Yeah, I've used a couple sets of blades in my life and a couple sets of cavity backs. I really don't see much difference except for the feel (or sound I should say). It's proven that golfers cannot tell the difference between the feel of clubs when they cannot hear the sound it makes at impact. My MP32's do have a different sound/feel at impact and that's what I like about them, but no, I don't see any difference in my ability to work the ball.

I look at it the same way as the new drivers with the supposed high MOI. It all comes down to the golfer I think, not the club. I've got the Cleveland XLS which has this high MOI and it's suppose to be very hard to work the ball (or so I read before I bought it). I have no issue at all drawing or fading it. I think in the end it comes down to what's between the golfers' ears. It's no secret that you just have more confidence with different clubs and if you have more confidence in what you're doing you're more likely to pull the shot off.

[deronsizemore]

Thinking of getting some used blades to practice with at the range. Are Mizuno MP-33's a good choice?

To each their own, but I just think this would be the worst thing you could do. Why would you practice with one set and then try to play with another set in which you're not used to looking at and playing with regularly? It's likely that the lofts, shafts, lies, etc. won't be exactly the same between the sets so you're likely to get very different ball flights between the clubs which would have to do more harm than good?

In the end it's whatever works for you and if that what you want to do, go for it, but I don't see how it could help.

[st0wgolf08]

Today i went to golf galaxy, i hit the x forged with rifle 5.5 flighted shaft and the Zm with the S300, I hit them both great, carrying about 145 with pitching wedge and sucking back a yard or two. What flex is the 5.5? They both seemed forgiving, I only had one miss and that was a high push, other than that they were great, I tried to misshit one and was pleased the the x forged stung! Hah i bet that's weird to read, trying to miss-hit it, but i really like the feedback they offer.

[shredfit]

It's proven that golfers cannot tell the difference between the feel of clubs when they cannot hear the sound it makes at impact.

Really? Using the same reasoning, couldn't one also say that golfers cannot tell the difference between hitting an older Top Flight(the Rock hard kind) and a Pro V1 via feel without hearing the sound at impact?

Sorry, not buying it.

[iacas]

Sorry, not buying it.

Though I think deron may have taken things a teeny bit too far, I'd urge you to look up the article he's referring to before you say too much. The results, IIRC, were fairly surprising (and quite clear).

[shredfit]

Though I think deron may have taken things a teeny bit too far, I'd urge you to look up the article he's referring to before you say too much. The results, IIRC, were fairly surprising (and quite clear).

Got a link to it?

After a quick search I found several studies that also showed correlations of percieved "feel" with the stiffness, alloy type, dampening, and physical vibrational charecteristics(NOT related to sound). Heck, changing grips has the potential to change "feel". So, still not buying it... at least completely