TGC's grey goose 19th hole rant

[kugino]

alert: rant about steve duemig to follow...

i hate this show so much that i can't help but watch...i really like kelly tilghman (even though she can be quite a butt-kisser) but the other two? can they get two worse people on this show? you know the hosts are bad when the guests are ALWAYS better than the usuals...i love it when valvano is there...and brian hewitt is also much better.

charles davis, first of all, is so uninteresting. yeah, he has insight into the game as a former tournament director, but he has nothing interesting to say. boring.

duemig, on the other hand, has too much to say. while i don't always agree with him, that's not the problem. what bothers me is his tone and attitude. i don't know if he's trying to be a journalist or if he's doing shock-radio (tv, in this case). if someone sends in an email disagreeing with him, he looks at the camera, shakes his head, and starts yelling about how stupid they are. geez.

but what gets me most about duemig is how two-faced he is. we all know how much he hates michelle wie...much of this is because he's a close family friend of morgan pressel. he openly criticizes michelle wie for almost everything she does wrong but openly praises morgan for everything and anything without criticizing her at all. i have no problems with him praising morgan, but he loses credibility when he says she's a close family friend and then proceeds to harshly criticize michelle. this week's episode is particularly striking. when asked about morgan's two weeks in hawaii, duemig praises her for 5th and 11th place finishes...he always criticizes michelle for "not winning," despite her history of very high finishes in lpga tournaments. when asked about morgan's crying, he defends her by saying how young she is and that's her way of dealing with her emotions and just shows "how much she wants to win". when asked whether he's going to give michelle a break now that she soundly beat morgan in the final round (which, i admit, was a silly question), he does his customary stare at the camera with a shake of the head and starts yelling about how this is only one tournament, everyone has a bad day, etc. i'm willing to bet that if morgan had soundly beat michelle, duemig would have gone on and on about how morgan's playing junior tournaments had toughened her and prepared her for the pressure and that michelle didn't have the experience...but no, duemig just brushes it off as nothing.

now, i agree that you can't say much with one round, but that's not my point...i'm obviously a michelle wie fan but i understand that many people don't agree with the career path she's chosen. and i, too, think that she needs to win soon. but duemig is such an awful "personality." maybe he's not supposed to be a journalist...maybe he's supposed to be the loud-mouthed guy you're unlucky to be stuck with on a saturday afternoon round. he's simply awful, though...i wonder how many times kelly tilghman has had to bite her tongue on that show.

lastly, let me contrast duemig with two other commentators/journalists - mark rolfing and brian hewitt. both are obvious michelle wie supporters, rolfing being from hawaii and a close friend of the wies and brian hewitt unabashedly praising michelle. but both have been critical of michelle, recently saying that michelle's choice to not play in the turtle bay tournament was a mistake. rolfing also says that michelle has to win this year. but despite their ardent and effusive praise of michelle, they still praise morgan. maybe it's because they're real journalists...maybe i'm just too sensitive...maybe i just need to stop watching the show...i don't know.

[/end rant!]

[iacas]

i hate this show so much that i can't help but watch...i really like kelly tilghman (even though she can be quite a butt-kisser) but the other two? can they get two worse people on this show? you know the hosts are bad when the guests are ALWAYS better than the usuals...i love it when valvano is there...and brian hewitt is also much better.

See, now me, I despise Brian Hewitt. He's a smart guy, so I don't begrudge him that, and he cares about golf. I just hate the way he talks, his mannerisms, and the stupid ass "Hewitt Headlines" he comes up with all the time. They are just DUMB to me. He's the kind of guy I'd like to be friends with but his mannerisms and way of speaking would just bug the crap out of me too much.

But then again he might be totally different off-camera. Probably is.

charles davis, first of all, is so uninteresting. yeah, he has insight into the game as a former tournament director, but he has nothing interesting to say. boring.

Smart but boring. You've got that right. I wish he'd spice it up a little bit, show some fire in his belly. But then again, maybe they really want to play up the "buddy film" aspect of the duemig-davis duo? In that case, Davis HAS to play the straight guy to Duemig's whatever-ness...

duemig, on the other hand, has too much to say. while i don't always agree with him, that's not the problem. what bothers me is his tone and attitude. i don't know if he's trying to be a journalist or if he's doing shock-radio (tv, in this case). if someone sends in an email disagreeing with him, he looks at the camera, shakes his head, and starts yelling about how stupid they are. geez.

You've gotta admit, most of those emails are pretty dumb.

I don't mind Duemig. I like people that stir it up, throw out opinions, and then stick to them. He does that, and I haven't ever heard much bad about him. People may not like his attitude, but I think he's a good guy and agree or disagree, at least he's not boring like his partner.

but what gets me most about duemig is how two-faced he is. we all know how much he hates michelle wie...

Whoa whoa whoa. He's said that he thinks Michelle is a prominent, great talent. He disagrees - like many - with the way she's handled herself and the way she's gone about trying to be a great golfer. He thinks she should have earned her exemptions. I tend to agree with him here. And lest you forget that's his opinion, he'll remind you of it every chance he gets.

But that's not hating on Michelle Wie.

much of this is because he's a close family friend of morgan pressel.

He's a bit too close to the Pressel gang, I give you that, but I don't see it tainting his opinion of Michelle very much. A teeny bit, yeah, but not much.

he openly criticizes michelle wie for almost everything she does wrong but openly praises morgan for everything and anything without criticizing her at all.

He's praised Michelle too, but then too I have to ask you this: what does Morgan have to be criticized for at this point? For crying? I think it's lame but she's 17 and I'll give her a pass for a few months on crying. If Morgan ever does something worthy of criticism, I expect Duemig will go easy on her, wrongly, but I don't think the situation has yet come up, either.

i have no problems with him praising morgan, but he loses credibility when he says she's a close family friend and then proceeds to harshly criticize michelle. this week's episode is particularly striking. when asked about morgan's two weeks in hawaii, duemig praises her for 5th and 11th place finishes...he always criticizes michelle for "not winning," despite her history of very high finishes in lpga tournaments.

Michelle, with one exception, has not won

anything yet. Pressel has, and she took the route Duemig asked Wie to take - win at the amateur/junior level, THEN turn pro. Pressel did that, and in playing in Hawaii, a 5th and an 11th is a GREAT start for any rookie, let alone a 17-year-old rookie. She deserves praise for that. Duemig is a bit one-tracked in his thoughts, but his criticisms and praise are in two separate areas. One of them is how they handled their junior careers (wie bad, pressel good) and the other, which wie doesn't qualify for, is starting a career, a season, as an LPGA member. Wie isn't. She played well, and I'd have liked to see some kudos from Duemig on her #2 finish, but he wasn't critical. In fact, seems the best way to shut Duemig up is to have Wie do well, because then he can't criticize so he just doesn't say anything. Almost as bad, but not quite.

when asked about morgan's crying, he defends her by saying how young she is and that's her way of dealing with her emotions and just shows "how much she wants to win". when asked whether he's going to give michelle a break now that she soundly beat morgan in the final round (which, i admit, was a silly question), he does his customary stare at the camera with a shake of the head and starts yelling about how this is only one tournament, everyone has a bad day, etc. i'm willing to bet that if morgan had soundly beat michelle, duemig would have gone on and on about how morgan's playing junior tournaments had toughened her and prepared her for the pressure and that michelle didn't have the experience...but no, duemig just brushes it off as nothing.

He probably would have to some extent.

now, i agree that you can't say much with one round, but that's not my point...i'm obviously a michelle wie fan but i understand that many people don't agree with the career path she's chosen. and i, too, think that she needs to win soon. but duemig is such an awful "personality." maybe he's not supposed to be a journalist...maybe he's supposed to be the loud-mouthed guy you're unlucky to be stuck with on a saturday afternoon round. he's simply awful, though...i wonder how many times kelly tilghman has had to bite her tongue on that show.

This will be an interesting year to watch Steve Duemig, though, as Wie and Pressel finally clash. Michelle has largely avoided Morgan up to this point by skipping amateur events (or playing in men's amateur events). We should get to see seven or eight clashes this year.

And Paula Creamer is still right there in the picture, too, along with others.

maybe it's because they're real journalists...maybe i'm just too sensitive...maybe i just need to stop watching the show...i don't know.

I really wouldn't call Duemig a journalist.

[cmarkmyers]

He is your typical one dimensional radio jock. All he does is play towards the least common denominator. He takes it personal when anyone disagrees with him and refuses to see anything differently than once he has made up his mind (and he makes up his mind based on... nothing? - rather than relying on logic or facts).

You watch him on something like the Tampa Bay Big Break challenge thing and he seems to think he is a real celebrity that people love to hang out with, rather than a kiss-ass local yokel.

I can understand The Golf Channel wanting people that are controversial to stir up conversation but I am tired of 'least common denominators' television and I yearn for some intelligent, open, balanced discussions.

Then to Charles Davis, who is he again? Is he on the show? Oh, oh, oh. You mean the prop on Kelly's left.

[iacas]

I can understand The Golf Channel wanting people that are controversial to stir up conversation but I am tired of 'least common denominators' television and I yearn for some intelligent, open, balanced discussions.

So what do you think of our podcast?

[kugino]

i think i sort of agree with most of your comments, erik...i admittedly hate duemig so i read into his comments more than i probably should...

except that i disagree with people saying that michelle needs to earn her exemptions. i'm in that camp that thinks exemptions are at the discretion of the tournament and they have the right to give it to whomever they want. if it increases coverage of their tournament to invite michelle, then they've used it wisely. no one "earns" exemptions, they're gifts. if the guideline for handing out exemptions was missed in some way, that's a different story...but exemptions are what they are. duemig and morgan and other lpga girls are just bitter that they don't get them as much as michelle does. if the usga told morgan when she was 12, 13, 14, etc. that she was being given an exemption to the u.s. open i'm willing to bet that she would have gladly accepted it. duemig's anger is misplaced...it should be directed toward the tournaments, not the wies.

and so what if duemig disagrees with how the wies have decided to structure michelle's career? so michelle didn't take the same career path as morgan...so the wies don't heed duemig's advice on michelle's career path...that doesn't make him right. maybe he might not have taken that career path with his own daughter, but why does that make michelle's career path wrong? if the goal is to be the best golfer one can be, i might argue that playing against the men (even though i think michelle should stop this route) prepares michelle better than playing against high school girls who shoot in the 100's. what good would it do michelle to play high school golf in hawaii and play 5600 yard courses where she's shooting 10-under every round? remember, she won every prestigious amateur tournament in hawaii by the time she was 12, against women much older than she. that's certainly not the same as winning at the national level, but it's not like she hasn't won anything. "learning how to win" is, in my opinion, one of the silliest phrases in golf.

you're right that morgan hasn't had anything to be critical of yet. she's a great player. i really do like her...duemig makes it hard for me to root for her, though.

in the end, duemig is probably great for the show...people like me hate him so much that we keep watching. charles davis, on the other hand, needs to go.

[iacas]

except that i disagree with people saying that michelle needs to earn her exemptions. i'm in that camp that thinks exemptions are at the discretion of the tournament and they have the right to give it to whomever they want.

And I've long agreed with you and Charles Davis on this.

Where I've disagreed is in Michelle TAKING the exemptions, particularly those on the PGA Tour. I think she should have said "hey, I'd like to earn my way in." Or even "I was near the lead at the U.S. Open, so I feel I've earned this exemption." She hasn't earned the PGA Tour ones in the least, and I don't think she should have accepted the Deere one. The Sony one, sure, cuz it's Sony and her home state...

no one "earns" exemptions, they're gifts.

Some players earn exemptions. Not every exemption is handed out to increase media coverage. Most are given to whomever the tournament director feels deserves it and/or whoever they owe a favor to, etc.

And she could still have passed on the gift and said "I'd like to earn my way in." Oh wait, one other thing: she was given an exemption into the women's PGA... as an amateur. She didn't meet any of the requirements. That one she DEFINITELY should not have gotten. She wasn't yet a "professional" and thus not a member of the PGA. But I'll cap my commentary here and let others get back to the 19th Hole stuff. Don't want to threadjack on my own forum.

and so what if duemig disagrees with how the wies have decided to structure michelle's career? so michelle didn't take the same career path as morgan...so the wies don't heed duemig's advice on michelle's career path...that doesn't make him right.

He's not paid to be right, and since it's an opinion, we'll never even know if he was right or not.

prepares michelle better than playing against high school girls who shoot in the 100's.

Like the girls in the Women's Am that she lost to regularly? C'mon, junior girls golf is pretty competitive. She obviously found plenty of girls who could beat her.

what good would it do michelle to play high school golf in hawaii and play 5600 yard courses where she's shooting 10-under every round? remember, she won every prestigious amateur tournament in hawaii by the time she was 12, against women much older than she.

Key words: in Hawaii. Most amateurs don't go there because it's so expensive just to fly to Hawaii. How many

national amateur events did she win? Or even regional (defining "region" as being more than a few dinky islands).

that's certainly not the same as winning at the national level, but it's not like she hasn't won anything. "learning how to win" is, in my opinion, one of the silliest phrases in golf.

Yet she has put herself in position and failed quite a few times. Last year's U.S. Open, for example, with an 82. Even the Fields Open where she admittedly came close, but that was after being down by quite a bit and having little to lose.

you're right that morgan hasn't had anything to be critical of yet. she's a great player. i really do like her...duemig makes it hard for me to root for her, though.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair to her. I don't root against or for anyone because of what someone else thinks of them. I even root for the AFC team that (not last year, though) beats my Steelers to play in the Super Bowl.

in the end, duemig is probably great for the show...people like me hate him so much that we keep watching. charles davis, on the other hand, needs to go.

Again, he's gotta play the straight guy to Duemig's crazy guy.

[kugino]

And I've long agreed with you and Charles Davis on this.

few points...i don't see why she should have to say no to exemptions. if people want to earn their way on to a tournament, more power to them. i'll gladly take my free pass. does that make me less of a person? i don't know. yes, you're right that some people earn their exemptions by, for example, winning the us amateur to get into the masters and the u.s. and british opens...but by and large, exemptions are given to local talents, those who might help the tournament draw crowds, etc. the fact that michelle gets exemptions is not the issue...what people seem to be upset about is how many she gets. my thought on that is if she doesn't start winning, people will be less interested in her and there will be less incentive for tournaments to give her those exemptions.

she should NOT have gotten that exemption to play in the ladies pga last year. that was the silliest use of an exemption i've seen, and that was one tournament where maybe michelle should have passed on. the "h.s. girls who shoot in the 100s" was referring to girls high school golf in hawaii. i don't doubt that girls junior golf at the national and international levels is competitive. i'm making a dig on morgan pressel and her high school golf team, where she shoots in the 60s and the rest of the girls on her team struggle to break 100. the same rationale that it's expensive to go to hawaii has been used by the wies (prior to her endorsement deals, naturally) on why michelle doesn't play in more national junior tournaments. i'm from hawaii and travel back and forth from the mainland quite often. it's not the easiest thing to fly out east all the time. and "regional" is tough to define with hawaii, as ohio is closer to california than hawaii is. and they're the most fabulous "dinky" islands in the world, imo. yeah, michelle shot a horrible round last year at the u.s. open. but i'll take duemig's line and say it's just one round...gonna use it for morgan? i'll use it for michelle. at least we still agree that duemig's crazy!

[iacas]

few points...i don't see why she should have to say no to exemptions.

I didn't say she should have to. I said I'd like it if she did. Would show some character. Especially to events like the John Deere.

but by and large, exemptions are given to local talents, those who might help the tournament draw crowds, etc.

I dunno. Ryan Moore, some previous Tour winners who have non-exempt status, etc. A local guy or two may get it, but of the five tourneys get, most go to people who deserve it, I think, over the course of a year.

the fact that michelle gets exemptions is not the issue...what people seem to be upset about is how many she gets.

My only issue with her and exemptions is how many she TAKES.

my thought on that is if she doesn't start winning, people will be less interested in her and there will be less incentive for tournaments to give her those exemptions.

If she keeps not winning but finishing high, it may not decline because people will keep saying, like Red Sox fans, "this is the tournament where she'll do it!" People will start counters showing the # of rounds she's played without winning, yada yada. And then if she goes long enough and doesn't win, she'll be an LPGA member at 18 or late 17s and it'll be a moot point, this whole exemptions thing.

she should NOT have gotten that exemption to play in the ladies pga last year. that was the silliest use of an exemption i've seen, and that was one tournament where maybe michelle should have passed on.

I think it was downright illegal.

the "h.s. girls who shoot in the 100s" was referring to girls high school golf in hawaii. i don't doubt that girls junior golf at the national and international levels is competitive. i'm making a dig on morgan pressel and her high school golf team, where she shoots in the 60s and the rest of the girls on her team struggle to break 100.

Nobody gives a shit about Pressel playing high school golf. I was talking about her many regional and national juniors accomplishments.

the same rationale that it's expensive to go to hawaii has been used by the wies (prior to her endorsement deals, naturally) on why michelle doesn't play in more national junior tournaments.

Yet they make the trek to play in the John Deere? Or to Erie so Michelle can lose in the U.S. Women's Am? Yeah, I don't buy it.

and they're the most fabulous "dinky" islands in the world, imo.

Been there. No disagreement from me. Dinky was referring to the quality of their local female golf talent. There's Michelle and....?

yeah, michelle shot a horrible round last year at the u.s. open. but i'll take duemig's line and say it's just one round...gonna use it for morgan? i'll use it for michelle.

It happens to be the few round in which Michelle had any pressure on her, and she folded like lawn furniture. That's why I mention it.

"Learning to win" is not just that, it's learning to handle pressure and beat it down and come out on top. I don't think she knows how.

[kugino]

Yet they make the trek to play in the John Deere? Or to Erie so Michelle can lose in the U.S. Women's Am? Yeah, I don't buy it.

no, the wies have said that if they're going to travel to the mainland to play tournaments, they're going to play in the pro tournaments. cost them the same amount of money, so they've decided to play against "the best"...so, with the roughly $50,000 it cost them to travel last year, they decided to play in some tournaments and not others...career choice you may disagree with, but that's their choice. it wasn't financially feasible for them to play in every amateur tournament and still do their pro thing. would i have wanted her to play in the women's amateur and women's public links? yes. but would i want to see her in some junior girls tournament? nah, i think i'll pass. but if this is how she thinks she's going to get better, more power to her.

there's michelle and...stephanie kono (and a few others). great player...ranked top 20 in usga junior girls. certainly not as many as in california or florida, but hey, it's a "dinky" island, right? yep, michelle folded in the last round...but isn't she "learning how to win" by going through that experience? so she's learning to win on the lpga instead of in junior tournaments...she is "only 16", after all.