Conservatives Endorse Obama

[Chilli Dipper]

I used to really have a ton of respect for McCain for not only his politics but for his war efforts, etc...and I still do(for the war effort, and hero). But the politics part has really taken a huge hit from me. I really like Obama because I believe Obama actually has PLANS. Whether or not they'll work remains to be seen. But at least I feel like Obama is TRYING to move the country in another direction; I don't see that AT ALL with McCain.

But McCain says he knows how to do everything! "My friends, I know how to create gold from the scrap metal of Oldsmobile Cutlasses! Elect me, and I'll do it! Congress tried to pass a Used Car Alchemy Bill, but it was full of goodies and earmarks. You know who voted for it? That one! I didn't, because I won't reveal my secrets of the occult if it means putting unnecessary burden on the taypayers!"

[DDBowdoin]

I really like Obama because I believe Obama actually has PLANS. Whether or not they'll work remains to be seen. But at least I feel like Obama is TRYING to move the country in another direction; I don't see that AT ALL with McCain.

That's the problem with so many people here in this country... you're right, he has wonderful ideas... but they end there, they are just ideas and plans. Typical liberal rhetoric... "the American people are tired of paying to much as the gas pump, the grocery store, making the bills. I'll fight for you, the little man" <----- BS

Its idealism in its purist form... would I love to see everyone have access to efficient and modern health care systems, of course... but am I socialist? NO NOTHING IS FREE, I don't want any more of my taxes going to help those who take more benefits out of the system than they put in... I'm not saying McCain is the solution, because quite frankly he isn't. We're voting for the lesser of two evils. But someone who says "I'll cut 95% of taxes for the American people" -- are people in this country that blind?

[Chilli Dipper]

That's the problem with so many people here in this country... you're right, he has wonderful ideas... but they end there, they are just ideas and plans. Typical liberal rhetoric... "the American people are tired of paying to much as the gas pump, the grocery store, making the bills. I'll fight for you, the little man" <----- BS

I know that Obama won't be able to implement everything he promises; no politician can. But is it naive to think that even though not every idea will come to fruition, we should work to put as much into place as we can realistically put forward? Absolutely not.

[Smallville]

But someone who says "I'll cut 95% of taxes for the American people" -- are people in this country that blind?

Well, to be fair, Obama didn't say that. What he did say was that if you make less than $250,000 you will not see a tax incrase. (I suppose that's 95% of the people). But I really haven't heard him say he would CUT taxes. He's a democrat, of course he isn't going to cut taxes. But he is going to RAISE taxes on the 5% who already pay the most in taxes anyway.

Those 5% also happen to be business owners. OK, so he's going to raise taxes on the business owners. What exactly is that going to do to your companies bottom line? And what do companies do when their bottom line starts suffering? Well, they cut back. But that's what unemployment insurance is for right? This plan makes as much sense as raising the minimum wage. I think they ought to slightly raise taxes on the 95% and give more breaks to business. Raise their bottom line and give them the extra to give people these things called raises instead of laying employees off. How about we start by getting rid of Earned Income Credit? I mean WTF? People can actually get more in a tax refund than they actually paid in taxes? Talk about income redistribution. If they got rid of that, how much money will that save? And by the way, quoting something from a liberal site is going to make the republicans look bad and quoting from a conservative site is going to make the democrats look bad. You can make a point for anything if you only present certain facts. They all spin, it's not one party or the other.

[immts007]

That's the problem with so many people here in this country... you're right, he has wonderful ideas... but they end there, they are just ideas and plans.

How do you know? Are you omniscient? Evidence is -- and there is data to back this up -- that the economy does better, over all, for

all Americans across the board under Democratic administrations over the past 50 years. the economy does better for the top ONE percent under Republicans and it doesn't freaking trickle down .

Typical liberal rhetoric... "the American people are tired of paying to much as the gas pump, the grocery store, making the bills. I'll fight for you, the little man" <----- BS

As opposed to the "typical conservative rhetoric" about reducing spending and balancing budgets? Because they never do, you know... they always increase spending and increase our deficit.

Its idealism in its purist form... would I love to see everyone have access to efficient and modern health care systems, of course... but am I socialist? NO

Who said it was? Are our highways free? Is our military free? Is our education system free? We decide as a people what we should do together to "promote the general welfare" why all the sudden when we add health care to the mix does it become socialism?

Does the fact that we pay taxes to provide ourselves with roads and police and fire fighters, etc... make us socialist?

"I'll cut 95% of taxes for the American people" -- are people in this country that blind?

That's not what he said. He said I'll cut taxes for 95% of the American people. Big difference.

95% of American households make under $150,000. Maybe you weren't aware of that.

[xTsUnAmI]

This present crisis was founded in Democrats trying to make credit available to those who were not credit worthy -- pure and simple. When that happened, opportunists jumped in like foxes with the keys to the chicken coop. Obama and his cronies took advantage of it as did others; however, I don't hear the outrage for those that brought down Fanny and Freddie Mac...the very same crooks that are plotting Obama's rise to power.

Graham-Leech-Bliley. It wasn't just the poor loans peddled to people that had no means of affording them. 61% of sub prime loaners qualified for regular loans. Credit default swaps are at an estimated 60 TRILLION dollars. (the world GDP is around 62 Trillion). If you think low income home buyers account for 60 trillion in wealth you are smoking something. Ever heard of the ownership society? From the White House Fact Sheet, August 2004

Expanding Homeownership. The President believes that homeownership is the cornerstone of America's vibrant communities and benefits individual families by building stability and long-term financial security.... Under his leadership, the overall U.S. homeownership rate in the second quarter of 2004 was at an all time high of 69.2 percent. Minority homeownership set a new record of 51 percent in the second quarter, up 0.2 percentage point from the first quarter and up 2.1 percentage points from a year ago. President Bush's initiative to dismantle the barriers to homeownership includes: American Dream Downpayment Initiative, which provides down payment assistance to approximately 40,000 low-income families; Affordable Housing. The President has proposed the Single-Family Affordable Housing Tax Credit, which would increase the supply of affordable homes; Helping Families Help Themselves. The President has proposed increasing support for the Self-Help Homeownership Opportunities Program; and Simplifying Homebuying and Increasing Education. The President and HUD want to empower homebuyers by simplifying the home buying process...

"FHA loans, once the only haven for non-prime borrowers, went from a 10–15 percent market share in the 1990s to just 2.7 percent in 2006."

[iacas]

Plus the way the McCain camp. has been acting lately, I could care less for them.

If you could care less, how much less? Do you care a lot right now?

Please (continue to) keep it reasonably civil, guys.

[iQuest Golfer]

Graham-Leech-Bliley. It wasn't just the poor loans peddled to people that had no means of affording them. 61% of sub prime loaners qualified for regular loans. Credit default swaps are at an estimated 60 TRILLION dollars. (the world GDP is around 62 Trillion). If you think low income home buyers account for 60 trillion in wealth you are smoking something.

So, you make my case for me...

"opportunists are like foxes with the keys to the chicken coop." And, the government certainly contributed to that behavior.... both Republicans and Democrats!

Ever heard of the ownership society?

I think it's a great society... for those individuals that are responsible. We can argue the point; however, I think we'll come to the agreement that irresponsibility all around is the cause.

Immts007 posted a good Facts Check:

So who is to blame? There's plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn't fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn't do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault: 1. The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap. 2. Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively. 3. Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses. 4. Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes. 5. The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families. 6. Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates. 7. Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages. 8. Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral. 9. The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market. 10. An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic. 11. Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up. The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult. –by Joe Miller and Brooks Jackson, FactCheck.org

I agree with this assessment! This go 'round I happen to believe that McCain is the lesser of two

bad choices for president. I hope the silent majority will wake up and prove me right!

[Chilli Dipper]

So, you make my case for me...

If the silent majority looks anything like this...

...then I pray you're wrong.

[Grogger31]

If the silent majority looks anything like this...

Or this ...

[DDBowdoin]

oh boy... I'm sorry to say that whatever happens we're in trouble. Videos like that really bring you into the mindset of groups of people who are so brainwashed into a single set of values.

I am just fearing because day in and out I constantly here people supporting Obama because of the last eight years of George Bush. I understand he hasn't been the greatest president and is probably the worst in our history but I'm not ready to pass the torch to someone who 4 years ago was a mystery. We need a change... yes, but I feel that Obama hasn't the slighest clue of what he is doing. I'm not saying McCain does either...

Hillar Clinton should have been the nominee... and I consider myself a true republican, she would have had my vote.

[Chilli Dipper]

oh boy... I'm sorry to say that whatever happens we're in trouble. Videos like that really bring you into the mindset of groups of people who are so brainwashed into a single set of values.

You're concerned that Obama doesn't have the experienced required for the office of President of the United States. That's a completely valid argument, and though I disagree with it, I can respect it. The people showing up at McCain/Palin rallies shouting "terrorist!" and claiming Obama's "got the blood," on the other hand, cannot be tolerated in this political climate.

[DDBowdoin]

but honestly does it really suprise you? People will always be racist, it's just a reality... this feel good about everyone and love each other doesnt really fly with most people. I live in a "blue state" which is aparently liberal and if I consider Boston a racist city I can't imagine what it is like in other more conservative regions.

[Chilli Dipper]

but honestly does it really suprise you? People will always be racist, it's just a reality... this feel good about everyone and love each other doesnt really fly with most people. I live in a "blue state" which is aparently liberal and if I consider Boston a racist city I can't imagine what it is like in other more conservative regions.

Racism doesn't surprise me, though I won't buy into your follow-up allegation that most people are racists. I just find it unreal that the Republican Party is willing to exploit racist sentiment the way they have.

Former RNC chairman Ken Mehlman hit the nail on the head when he tried to make attracting minority voters a priority. The demographics of this country are changing, and the GOP can no longer rely on the white vote alone to win national elections. That's been true for at least the last decade; George W. Bush does not assume the presidency without strong Hispanic support. Despite this, Republicans push a xenophobic immigration agenda that demonizes Mexican-Americans and other Latinos, alienating a big piece of Bush's base and placing them solidly in the Democratic corner for the foreseeable future. Republicans need minority support to remain relevant on the national stage, and they aren't going to get it unless the party makes significant changes to their platform.

[Pat007]

and that's why we should keep to golf related topic on here. My dad used to say to me: "Son, there are two things you should never bring up in a conversation, politics and religion." 20 years later, this still rings true....

[immts007]

More info on the blame game, esp with regard to the Fannie/Freddie finger pointing. This article makes the case that private industry bears FAR more of the blame for the sub-prime fiasco than anyone else.

They give some pretty compelling arguments and evidence:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53802.html

[immts007]

Wow. Another neoconservative intellectual throws his support to Barack:

http://www.slate.com/id/2202163/

I've always thought of Hitchens as slightly more vulgar W.F. Buckley Jr.

[ganjagolfer]

"The most insulting thing that a politician can do is to compel you to ask yourself: "What does he take me for?" Precisely this question is provoked by the selection of Gov. Sarah Palin. I wrote not long ago that it was not right to condescend to her just because of her provincial roots or her piety, let alone her slight flirtatiousness, but really her conduct since then has been a national disgrace. It turns out that none of her early claims to political courage was founded in fact, and it further turns out that some of the untested rumors about her—her vindictiveness in local quarrels, her bizarre religious and political affiliations—were very well-founded, indeed. Moreover, given the nasty and lowly task of stirring up the whack-job fringe of the party's right wing and of recycling patent falsehoods about Obama's position on Afghanistan, she has drawn upon the only talent that she apparently possesses."

from hitchens article