Why is there still a fear of the Lob Wedge?

[zeg]

Ok, well, to clear things up (maybe), here's a sketch (see attached). The dashed line is the vertical. Angle a is the loft -- a=0 is a vertical club and a=90 is horizontal, so this is the right definition. The upper angle in the solid triangle is equal to the loft angle. The club face length is d and the effective height perpendicular to the ground is h (note that the hypoteneuse is d, not h, I guess maybe that's confusing but I think we can keep it straight).

From trig, h=d*cos(a). To check that this makes sense, remember that cos(0)=1 and cos(90)=0. Thus, for a vertical club, h=d (correct) and for the maximum loft of 90, h=0 (correct).

For two clubs to have the same height, h, they must satisfy h1 = h2. Using the first equation in the above paragraph, that is d1*cos(a1)=d2*cos(a2). For the angles above, a1=52 and a2=58. cos(52)=0.616 and cos(58)=0.530. Dividing both sides by cos(58) says d2=d1*(0.616/0.530) or d2=1.16*d1. In other words, the 58 degree wedge face needs to be 16% longer to keep the face height (h) the same.

What does that mean? Well, your measured face length was 2.5mm longer for the 58. So if those wedges have the same face height h, 2.5mm must be 16% of d1, or 2.5mm=0.16*d1. Dividing through, d1=2.5/0.16=15.6mm. That's where my 15.5mm number came from earlier (with somewhat different rounding giving .5 instead of .6).

If you can find an error in my calculations, please let me know. I think they're correct.

Basically, I believe your measurement and I agree that the higher lofts have longer faces. While this will offset the effect of loft somewhat, I don't believe they completely compensate -- for the extreme lofts that would require extremely large faces that will increase weight and create other problems.

Enough of that, though.

Anyway, what I'd heard was that 60+ degree clubs were generally not recommended for beginners because they are harder to hit. I'd separately heard that flop shots are difficult. I guess this is the problem with anecdotal evidence-- everyone's anecdotes are a little different.

Regardless of whether we get on the same page here, nice "arguing" with you, and happy Thanksgiving!

[cwcaesar]

My lob wedge is the most used club in the bag, other than the putter and maybe the driver. I use it from 80 yards and in as long as I don't have to keep it low. I could probably use another wedge for chipping and other situations, but I have been using the lobbie for several years now and I am more comfortable with the loft of it. It is very versatile for me. I tried to switch around to the 52 for the chips and such, but I blade that way more frequently than is normal for my game, so I will stick to the 60 for now. I have actually thought about adding a 64, but I already have 14 clubs.

[ozgolfer63]

If I could remember my trigonometry from 30 years ago I would make comment, Im lucky to remember the way to the course these days so Im sure what you have worked out is correct. What I do remember is why I never pursued a career in mathematics!! Do me a favour and work out what h is when d for the 58 wedge is 59mm and 56.5mm for the 52 wedge, Im curious to see what the difference is. Do you think the amount of bounce can influence h? By the way, I have the 58 with I think 12 degrees of bounce that I carry now and use from the sand but I did switch from a 60 with 4 degrees of bounce. Loved the 60 for chipping etc but with the low bounce it was useless for me out of the sand so I had to compromise and go with the 58. Its a great club but when it gets dry over here and the lies get really tight its a pig. Anyway Im due off the 1st in about 5 1/2 hours so Id better get a little sleep.
Cheers

[zeg]

What I do remember is why I never pursued a career in mathematics!!

Actually, I couldn't make it in mathematics either, so I just hang around forums looking for excuses to stroke my ego and pull out the little bits of it I still remember.

Do me a favour and work out what h is when d for the 58 wedge is 59mm

Sure. h = 59 * cos(58) = 31.3mm

and 56.5mm for the 52 wedge

h = 56.5 * cos(52) = 34.8mm

So the 52 wedge is about 3.5mm, or 10%, taller than the 58 at proper address. That's about 2mm better than just rotating the face but still possibly a significant loss for some of us duffers.

Do you think the amount of bounce can influence h?

Very interesting question -- I'm not sure how to account for bounce, but I'm sure it will affect the ease of striking. Our simple triangle model won't work any more because with bounce you have to include the effects of hitting various types of ground and what that does to the stroke. That's where I completely agree that the technical analysis isn't going to explain everything. I think it gives a bit of insight, but some things are best explored experimentally instead of theoretically

Anyway Im due off the 1st in about 5 1/2 hours so Id better get a little sleep. Cheers

Hope you had a good round and didn't worry too much about cosines!

[PiKapp23]

I currently carry a 58* wedge and have carried either a 58* or 60* 'lob' wedge (low bounce) for years. I love the club because of it's versatility. One of my favorite uses for it is out of thick rough close to green. With that club I can take a more full, aggressive swing at the ball to help keep me from decelerating my SW or other club for those partial shots. I am tempted to try a 64*, but I don't know which of my other clubs I'd take out.