broke a window!!

[Spackler-esque]

Here's an interesting question...

Would it be ethical for the homeowner to demand payment without producing documents that might indicate that he/she is liable for the damage? Furthermore, would it be ethical for a homeowner to defraud a golfer by threatening the golfer, taking the golfer's money, and then having homeowner's insurance fix the window, thereby pocketing the golfer's money?

No, and no.

This is why I'm cautious. I'm not saying this is the case here, but a situation like I mention above is very plausible. That is why I would want to see documents (homeowner's association charter agreement, homeowner's insurance, any other waivers/etc. signed in order to obtaining the deed). It has nothing to do with my "personal integrity," as some have insinuated through means other than replies. It has everything to do with protecting my rights and protecting myself from fraud . I don't trust people. You shouldn't, either. After all, two wrongs don't make a right.

[JonnyGolf]

So by your reasoning if you drove your car into someone's house it would be the homeowners nickel because they live on the road.

I think the analogy would hold if you said that they built the house on a race course where cars take "offroad excursions" somewhat regularly.

[ryohazuki222]

I'm really glad you keep updating this thread as things happen. Honestly, I was under the impression that golfer's were completely at fault and responsible (despite myself not wanting to be!) My friend (no offense to him but... he's a little cheap at times) refuses to accept that golfer's are responsible.

I may have missed it, but I still think if you're at college you should go seek your free legal advice (you pay for it in your tuition!) just incase.

Honestly, out of pure selfishness I think you should tell the guy to sue you if he wants. He gave you an ultimatum..... You give him one back: "This is my offer, take it or leave it. Stop harrassing me." Honestly, if he keeps "threatening" to take you to court and doesn't it's pretty much harrassment. My dad deals with situations like this every now and then. One time an a/c man came and added some freon to the unit. Charged my dad by rounding up (quarter used rounded up to a whole)... my dad told him he'll pay for what was used but not anymore... The a/c man threatened to send my dad to collections. My dad said to go ahead. A/c man ended up taking the offer.

But like I said... out of selfishness I'd like to see you guys go to court so we can have an answer to this!!! I'm also a college kid not wanting to part with my hard earned unsteady income money... but I'd offer you $10 via PayPal if you end up losing, but do a good job of narrating what happened with some evidence and such. :)

[Matt10]

Exactly. Penalty enough. Move on.

100% agree.

[zeg]

Since all the non-lawyers are weighing in with opinions, I'll toss my two cents in too!

Basically, I think it should depend on just how far off the course we're talking. If it's close enough that a poor shot with a reasonable club for the shot puts the ball in the window, then the golfer is not responsible. The areas right off the course are just too predictably at risk. Morally speaking, between the homeowner and the course, they need to come up with something to prevent broken windows. Nets, shatterproof windows, etc. The greens fee should cover the fraction of these costs borne by the course -- as has been pointed out, OB shots are part of the game and the course layout needs to accommodate this reality.

On the other hand, if the house is 100 yards over the end of a 130 yard par 3, that's not within the realm of an honest accident. The golfer has the responsibility to exercise due care not to whomp the ball out of bounds intentionally.

Legally speaking? Who knows... but morally, I don't see that it's automatically the golfer's "fault." Yeah, he hit the ball, but the owner has to take some part of the blame...

[Guest]

Hahah i remember when i first broke a window. I was scared the person was going to come out and yell at me haha.

[Smallville]

I'd like to know if the person who broke the window ever went to talk to a lawyer. You ask a question on a forum and all you are going to get is advice from a bunch of people whose opinions don't mean squat. If it turns out you are liable for the window, all the "advice" you have gotten here hold no weight at all. Either pay it and end it or fight it and get a lawyer. At least talk to one so you can find out what your REAL options are.

[HytrewQasdfg]

Just to update you guys... the guy called and I told him I can't pay, so he said he's going to sue me. will i win or should i just pay the $160???

Call his bluff. Has it occured to you that he knows he doesn't have a legal case and is just trying to bully you into paying him.

One of the funniest (at least to me) incidents was when a guy threatened to sue me and I calmly said: "OK, go ahead." His head just about exploded, because we both knew he didn't stand a chance of winning in court (and he never did sue me.) Realize that despite your age, you and this guy are equals. Adults. You don't have to take any guff from the guy. My guess is the guy is tired of people hitting his house with golf balls, and has made you the target of his long building frustrations. The next time he comes after you, tell him (calmly and nicely) to either go ahead and sue you or leave you alone. My guess is he won't sue you, but even if he doesn it isn't the end of the world.

[LBlack14]

I worked at a club for 12 years that ran thru a neighborhood. Golfer is always responsible for damage.

[HytrewQasdfg]

I worked at a club for 12 years that ran thru a neighborhood. Golfer is always responsible for damage.

http://www.golfcourserealty.com/feat...rance-3921.htm "Golf courses often shy away from paying for damages, although several lawsuits in the past have found courses to be guilty of negligence when dealing with houses that are hit an extraordinary amount of times. " "...in most cases, it's the homeowner responsible for repairing damage caused by errant shots." "If you are golfing and breaks someone's window, the golfer is responsible," said Mike Siemienas, an All-State spokesman." I suspect your club's policy statement was simply a way to divert responsibility from themselves (do you really think they would have a policy that says "Homeowners are responsible for any damage from errant shots"? Even if it was true, they would be inviting the ire of the homeowners surrounding their course. I can name any number of "real estate courses" (courses built as part of a housing devlopment project that meander through to the community) where the back of the homes lining the fairways are little more than 20-30 yards from the edge of the fairway. That's pretty much building the house in the line of fire. You can make a case that the course/home builder was negligent to build that way.

[jermzkill]

I'd like to know if the person who broke the window ever went to talk to a lawyer. You ask a question on a forum and all you are going to get is advice from a bunch of people whose opinions don't mean squat. If it turns out you are liable for the window, all the "advice" you have gotten here hold no weight at all. Either pay it and end it or fight it and get a lawyer. At least talk to one so you can find out what your REAL options are.

I e-mailed my professor from last semester whos a lawyer and he said he'd get back to me but he never did, I'll contact him again. Then, I e-mailed my schools student legal office that supplies legal advice and they never e-mailed back.

[flopdarock]

I e-mailed my professor from last semester whos a lawyer and he said he'd get back to me but he never did, I'll contact him again. Then, I e-mailed my schools student legal office that supplies legal advice and they never e-mailed back.

call the office... then go make a visit to the actual office... dont wait for them

[LBlack14]

"If you are golfing and breaks someone's window, the golfer is responsible," said Mike Siemienas, an All-State spokesman."

Case in point.

[OVerus]

I broke a window todaY!!! I was trying to hit a retarded shot and it sliced way right. The homeowners were there so I gave them all my info... what's the policy on this usually? It's probably gona cost me $200 if I have to pay for this!!

Nice to see someone take responsibility for their actions. All too rare in today's day and age.

[Clambake]

Nice to see someone take responsibility for their actions. All too rare in today's day and age.

Unfortunately, following the rest of the thread you'll see that the OP has gone away from taking responsibility, told the homeowner he won't pay, and is trying to find free legal support. Alas, the shirking of individual responsibility which is all to common on today's day and age.

[Spackler-esque]

Unfortunately, following the rest of the thread you'll see that the OP has gone away from taking responsibility, told the homeowner he won't pay, and is trying to find free legal support. Alas, the shirking of individual responsibility which is all to common on today's day and age.

That's a serious oversimplification of the situation.

Especially as the OP has stated that he doesn't have a lot of money and he has tried to negotiate with the man whose window he broke. The man countered with all or I sue after being offered half (I believe that's what the OP said). That is why he is seeking legal advice more than anything. Please, don't misrepresent the few actual facts that exist about this thread. If you want to come after the discussion that has evolved from this, go ahead. I still think there's nothing wrong with verifying liability and, if it's the right thing to do, pay up. However, it's also the right thing to do to protect yourself from fraud.

[bIGwIRE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HytrewQasdfg "If you are golfing and breaks someone's window, the golfer is responsible," said Mike Siemienas, an All-State spokesman."

Case in point.

An insurance company spokesman will always try to shift the blame elsewhere, so I'm not sure his quote proves or even strengthens your point.

I have good freinds who live on a golf course, just to the left about 100 yds off the 10th tee. They have a window broken a few times each year, as well as dents in their siding and roof, despite the thick trees protecting their back yard. They had to sign papers saying they would either cover it out of pocket, or provide for it under their homeowners insurance before they bought it. So a golfer who hits their house has no liability or responsibility to shirk.

[Undr Par]

Unfortunately, following the rest of the thread you'll see that the OP has gone away from taking responsibility, told the homeowner he won't pay, and is trying to find free legal support. Alas, the shirking of individual responsibility which is all to common on today's day and age.

exactly.......to the OP....to solve your problems...being that your a college student and what not, just give up drinking for a bit and going out to clubs with your boys and I'm sure in a week or 2 you'll have that $160.00 for that mans window (that of course was calling your name to break)...your broke it, you pay for it.....simple as ABC, I mean after all you had remorse or you wouldn't have posted this on here right?...you know what to do...do it