Rules Question

[65withatriple]

I have a rules question here. I am familiar with the Red and Yellow stakes marking water hazards and lateral hazards, and the difference between proper releif from both. There is one situation where Im not quite sure. Ill try my best to explain.




Teebox waterhazard Green



Tree


Use the lay out below to picture the hole. This is a par three with a water hazard between you and the green marked with yellow stakes. The water hazard is lined with trees on on both sides and is fairly narrow, about the same width as the green. If you push your drive to the right and it never goes over the water before hitting the tree, hits the tree and kicks left into the water, what are your options.

What I know.....yellow hazards allow 2 options. 1) rehit from as close to previous place or 2) drop from where the ball went in the hazard on line from where it was hit as far back as you want to go. My question is can I drop to the right of the hazard where the ball went in ?? If it was a red stake on the sides I know I could but this hazard is marked yellow.


Not sure

[chriskzoo]

Draw a line from the point the ball hit the tree to the point where the ball entered that hazard - that is your point of entry and assuming no lateral hazard markings, it would be treated as a regular water hazard. So either re-tee, or use the point of entry as your marker for going back in line with the flag.

[65withatriple]

Thats what I though but was told different from the guys I play with. Thanks for the response.

[chriskzoo]

Thats what I though but was told different from the guys I play with. Thanks for the response.

I think the way to look at it is that a lateral hazard is something you would have to first hit over (like a creek running up the side of a hole) in order to hit over to get to the green. In your case, it sounds like you could conceivably hit to the right/left of the waterhazard and then still have to hit over it to the green.

[65withatriple]

A lateral hazard is a hazard that you dont have to hit over. Lateral hazards run the direction of the hole, and should be marked with red stakes. Water hazards should be running across the hole and would have to be crossed to get to the green and should be marked with yellow stakes.

[RC]

To to elaborate on hazards...

It is not uncommon for a body of water to be both a lateral hazard for some ways up the fairway and then to convert to a hazard later. It is all in the layout of the hole and the body of the water and how one would normally proceed to play the hole in the typical course of making strokes. You will see this when two stakes are side by side along the bank of the water... one will be red for lateral and then the yellow one signals where it changes to a hazard -- the stakes will be side by side. This situation might be reversed if the water crosses the fairway closer to the tee and then ran along side the fairway and the off to the side of a green. It is not even unusually for a body of water to be labeled differently in three or more ways, such as a meandering stream that crosses the fairway in more than one place. There are cases where normally what likely should be a hazard is played as a lateral hazard due to the layout of the land and the inability to go a suitable drop area (and the kindness of the officials of not forcing a repeat shot from the original location.) The other common practice is a designated drop area, usually a circle off to the side of the green requiring a challenging pitch, such as the island green at SawGrass.

[chriskzoo]

Easiest solution: Ask the head pro how that hazard is marked for tournament play.

[goblue107501]

Easiest solution: Ask the head pro how that hazard is marked for tournament play.

Good answer. The pro should be able to answer any sort of rules questions for their course.

Also, is there a drop area? Many of the par 3's I have played with water in front of the green will have a drop area somewhere. I don't think that you have to use it, but it may be an alternative.

[tjy355]

... drop from where the ball went in the hazard on line from where it was hit as far back as you want to go...

Not exactly. The line is between the hole and the point where the ball entered the hazard. You can drop a ball anywhere along this line no closer to the hole and as far back as you want.

The path the ball took has NO bearing when taking relief.

[Fourputt]

Not exactly. The line is between the hole and the point where the ball entered the hazard. You can drop a ball anywhere along this line no closer to the hole and as far back as you want.

This is true except that you use the ball's flight path to determine the point where it crossed the margin of the hazard. This is the only time that the ball's line of flight has any bearing on anything in golf. The phrase "line of flight" is actually never even mentioned in the Rules of Golf.

[laconic517]

Good answer. The pro should be able to answer any sort of rules questions for their course.

youd be surprised i once had a dispute with a group of people I play with about a penalty for holding the flag stick while putting (say a tap in) they said it was a penalty and a shot or 2 if you hold the stick while putting.....I called bullshit because i played plenty of tournament golf and this had never come up. The pro at the course agreed with THEM that it WAS a penalty. I looked it up at the USGA website and indeed found out I was correct and there was no penalty. Pros SHOULD know what they are talking about (especially if its from their own course) but dont always take their word as law. Find the rule yourself and then ask about how its interpreted

[65withatriple]

Here are the rules...If a ball is in or is lost in a water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:

(a) Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5);

or(b) Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped;

or (c) As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole. The ball may be lifted and cleaned when proceeding under this Rule.


It dosent really make clear the answer for my original question.

[tjy355]

Here are the rules...If a ball is in or is lost in a water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:

Your original question:

... My question is can I drop to the right of the hazard where the ball went in ?? If it was a red stake on the sides I know I could but this hazard is marked yellow.

With yellow stakes, the two club length drop option is not available (part 'c' of the rule). This is what I assume you mean when you say "drop to the right of the hazard."

Look closer at part 'b': "Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped" Find the spot where your ball entered the hazard. Picture a line between this spot and the hole. You can drop along this line going as far away from the hole as you want. Whether this option is possible or not can't be determined from your description.

[tjy355]

Here is a drawing - hope this helps!

[65withatriple]

I think you may have it!!! I have probably played over a 1,000 rounds of golf and should have probably known this but this is where I get confused. It says between the hole and the poing of entry, I always thought it was from where you previously hit from and point of entry. I have heard many times the line of flight of the ball and I guess that dosent come into play. That is what I meant when I said "drop to the right of the hazard." Because it hits a tree and kicks left so I would get the line the ball took from the tree to the hazard. I know the 2 clubs dont come into play if its marked yellow, which is why I was confused. It should probably have red stakes along the side anyway!!!

So another question.....do you ever get to use line of flight and when does that come into play or have I been taking illegal drops my whole life?

[65withatriple]

Helps a bunch. Thanks for your response.

[tjy355]

... I always thought it was from where you previously hit from and point of entry. I have heard many times the line of flight of the ball and I guess that dosent come into play...

Common misconception. As I mentioned in my first post (post #9), the path the ball took, a.k.a. "line of flight," is never considered. In fact, as Fourputt pointed out, the terminology "line of flight" does not appear in the rule.

[65withatriple]

Thanks for clearing it up. No more illegal drops for me!!!