IM SICK OF THIS *$#! whats ruining golf...

[abris33]

one more thing that goes w/ my first comment. to the people complaining about having to wait and saying it affects their game, do't let it affect your game. i used to get furious if i had to wait and if people were waiting for me because i was waiting but then i realized that it doesn't matter what the people in front of me are doing. it only matters what i am doing. plus waiting gives me the time to take in the beauty of a course instead of breezing right through it. doing this has made my game ten times better.

[iacas]

the national average is 100, that i am absolutely sure of.

And you can shoot 100 in four hours. You can shoot 110 in four hours, too.

And you are just like some of the arogant guys that i played against in college. you are all the same and think you should be on the tour.

Uhm, no I don't, and I don't consider it arrogant to be courteous to others, to play ready golf, and to put your bag in the right place, to watch the golf balls of you and your partners so you can find them more readily, to get and share yardages quickly, to walk at a decent pace, to carry a few clubs to your ball when you're limited to the cart path, etc.

so by making this argument you are saying that you are not a fan of golf.

Yeah... that's not how logic works. Besides, baseball fans didn't want to spend four hours watching a game that used to take three hours either. If PGA Tour players played faster, we'd get to see the full 18 holes of most of the leaders on the weekends - all we see now is holes 8-18 or thereabouts.

Fans would want to see more golf in a given time frame, not less.

to the people complaining about having to wait and saying it affects their game, do't let it affect your game.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The best players in the world like to get into the rhythm of a round and can't play at their best. Even Tiger Woods talked about having to re-adjust to the pace of play on the PGA Tour after his return.

Besides, that's a side issue. It's just more rationalization and justification. I've learned to handle a slower pace of play and still play good golf (for me), but that doesn't mean I should have had to learn that.

[abris33]

Yeah... that's not how logic works.

Uh yeah it does. Golf is a game based on patience so by saying that you want to breeze through a round you are saying that you don't like what the game was based on, therefore you are saying you are not a fan

[flanagan]

iacas, the key word from uuassistant2009's post:fans. those claims that baseball is too slow are made by people who aren't fans of baseball(trust me i have had people argue that against me after telling them i play baseball). so by making this argument you are saying that you are not a fan of golf.

1. Do you watch ESPN or any other baseball broadcast? Knowledgeable baseball announcers, who are fans of baseball, complain and deride the pace of play in baseball games.

2. It's a spectator sport, so the analogy is inappropriate. 3. I'm a golf fan, which is why I'm against slow play. Just because something like slow play creeps into the game, doesn't mean it "is" the game or that you are "against" the game because you are against slow play. You make no sense. 4. Based on some of the over the top reactions a couple of people have related it's clear that it isn't easy to adjust to tortoise like play conditions. Not condoning their behavior, but it is frustrating. I agree that you have to adjust your game to the conditions as you find them the day you are playing. That doesn't mean you can't decry slow play, take steps to educate, take action to eliminate, etc. It's amazing that people really try and defend 6 hour college rounds of golf or 5 hour "normal" rounds of golf. I don't want to unfairly categorize you, do you care about pace of play?

[abris33]

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The best players in the world like to get into the rhythm of a round and can't play at their best.

you do realize that rhythm doesn't mean fast. you can get into a slower rhythm and still play well. you don't have to always be waiting for the next group at the teebox or on the fairway. just slow everything down. be patient. it's golf not a race.

[abris33]

i am not defending five hour rounds i am just saying that when you are in the situation that the OP was in you need to not worry about what the other guys are doing and just worry about your game.
BTW to the OP, how'd the email fare w/ the club. i bet it didn't have any effect seeing as they don't care about the slow play that already happened. it might get the ranger fired because of the ball thing and his inability to move the group ahead along.

[WilsonWill]

Basicly what Ive taken from this whole discussion is that people are different. Some people like to take their time, arent concerned about how long a round takes them and are just out there for the enjoyment of the experience. Others like to be on more of a rhythym, dont want to spend 6 hours on a golf course, and are also there for their own enjoyment, but that enjoyment is dependent upon other factors as well as golf itself.

I figure in the end, so long as slower players are mindful of people behind them then the problem is solved. Thatll never happen, as there will always be those who simply dont care about their fellow player, but at least most are considerate of others.

Personally, I could give a **** how long anyone thinks it should take me to play a round of golf. Im there to enjoy the scenery, the outdoors, to play a game and waste another day. I have no delusions of being a pro, though I do hope to improve my game. Im there for my own personal enjoyment of the activity itself. I will always be aware of my fellow golfers and allow faster players to pass me w/ no second thought. I wont allow others perceptions to dictate how I enjoy a hobby.

[flanagan]

i am not defending five hour rounds i am just saying that when you are in the situation that the OP was in you need to not worry about what the other guys are doing and just worry about

Wasn't clear to me, just checking.

Actually, I found the stealing the ball part to be a little much, if he didn't complain about when it happened, not going to have a lot of credibility several months later, and probably will cause the club, if it cares at all, to view the rest of the complaint with a grain of salt. Sadly, it probably had no effect at all, but complaint was lodged and someone will be voting with their feet and dollars by playing somewhere else, if enough people having a similar experience do the same thing, something will eventually happen.

[Big_M]

I made it to page 9 and couldn't read anymore...

Itd be like being on a 4 lane highway and getting upset at someone for being in the fast lane and driving slow (another occurance that happens all the time). Guess what, theres a whole other lane over there, go around and just be happy. Same applies here, there are 17 other holes out there, go around and be happy.

Uhm... people who do that sh*t in cars are jackasses too. There is highway etiquette just as there is golf etiquette. If you want to share the course/highway, you should learn such or get the hell off the road/course.

... and I shouldn't have to skip a hole because some jackwad wants to hit 4 balls or take 12 practice swings... it's easy enough to let someone play through.

I know this is terrible and HORRIBLE etiquette but I have hit over the group in front of us to make a point then just zipped by them and played on. They get the picture.

I have thought about it, but never done it. I have hit into people out of partial impatience and partly because I thought they were clear since they were playing thier 7th shot.

I'm not a fan of slow play. However, a combination of slow and bad play is truly unacceptable. I don't believe in the excuse "they're learning how to play." When I first started, the first thing my brother told me was "Pick up the ball when you're struggling and move onto the next hole. Never hold anyone up because you're stinking up the course." That was the best advice ever for two reasons: respect for my fellow golfers and motivation to get better.

well said... this is what I taught my wife when she started... now she points out others who are causing problems.

I was a victim just a week ago on a Friday morning... people were playing a scramble (not organized), just them and probably in preperation for the tournament on the weekend. It was rediculous... 1.5 hr front, 3 hr back when we caught them... no excuse for this, let us play through. We spoke with the ranger on 17, but it was too late. Bottom line is you have to be respectful of others time. Yeah, it's a game, but some of us are trying to golf on work days and/or get home to see the wife and kids. I can handle a busy course and naturally slower pace (than the 3 hrs I prefer), but anything over 4.5 hrs is unacceptable.

[WilsonWill]

Im starting to question the reading comprehension on this site.

Im not defending the group in front of the OP, nor am I defending a person driving slow in the fast lane.

Im saying its foolish to allow either to effect your mood very much as you have no control over anything or anyone except yourself.

[iacas]

Uh yeah it does.

I'm not going to belabor the point, but no, it doesn't work that way. You can't make a bunch of false statements that say A = B, and 74 = pi, and conclude that A=pi.

Golf is a game based on patience so by saying that you want to breeze through a round you are saying that you don't like what the game was based on, therefore you are saying you are not a fan

Again, the game isn't "based on" patience, and I dare say you'd get your butt whooped in Scotland if you tried to tell golfers over there that the "founders" liked to play slowly.

And if I wonder why I feel like I'm arguing with a 14-year old here, it's because I am.

1. Do you watch ESPN or any other baseball broadcast? Knowledgeable baseball announcers, who are fans of baseball, complain and deride the pace of play in baseball games.

Indeed.

Ever hear people boo when the pitcher steps off the rubber and looks a runner back more than once or twice? They're expressing their disapproval at the pace of play.

It's a spectator sport, so the analogy is inappropriate.

Also true, and also why the logic he attempted to employ belongs on failblog.org.

I'm a golf fan, which is why I'm against slow play. Just because something like slow play creeps into the game, doesn't mean it "is" the game or that you are "against" the game because you are against slow play. You make no sense.

Word. I'm out.

P.S. Played 18 today in 1:50. Obviously not the norm, but at no point was I playing fast on purpose. Even had to stop and look for two balls.

[Big_M]

Im starting to question the reading comprehension on this site.

As I stated at the begining of my post... I couldn't make it through EVERY page... too boring. It might be foolish, but it is also human to get mad about stuff we cannot control. Sorry I'm not a model of restraint and control, but people acting like idiots upsets me, sometimes more than others. I can hadle an occaisional idiot, but I think almost everyone has thier breaking point.

[Mr3Putt]

The thing that ticks me off about slow players is that most of them have no idea they are slow. Since they NEVER have to wait to hit a shot, it's no big deal. They think that their pace is the norm.

Whenever I'm in a group and we start to fall behind, I actually get nervous. Fortunately I have the balls to let the others in my group know what my concerns are.

Once my partner and I were hooked up with another twosome who were clueless. We were the last guys in our skins game and the group ahead was way out of sight. When we made the turn, these guys stopped to eat, we said "see ya". After the round, they finished almost 45 minutes after we did.

Sorry, there are no excuses for slow play. I've played with many guys who have shot over 100 and easily kept up a sub 4 hour pace. I've also played with some low handicaps who know I won't join them again based solely on their tortoise speed.

It's simple, if you can't keep up with the group ahead of you, you have three options, either play faster, pick up your ball and get ahead or stay home.

[GDWindowpane]

I'm not going to belabor the point, but no, it doesn't work that way. You can't make a bunch of false statements that say A = B, and 74 = pi, and conclude that A=pi.

Unless of course B=74...

[Jared]

Im not defending the group in front of the OP, nor am I defending a person driving slow in the fast lane.

This is where the main disagreement comes from IMO. You are saying that you don't much enjoy slow play either, but you can't do anything about it so just sit back, relax and let it happen? Fact is, you CAN do something about it. You can call the proshop, look for a ranger, make it very obvious to the group ahead that they are holding you up. (By being out of the cart, teed up and ready to hit when they are on the green, plumb bobbing that 2 footer.) I have done all of these, and all have worked. To the poster who said he put one over their heads, IMO that is far worse than slow play.

The comparison to the guy in the left lane when he is not passing anyone is apt. In some states, you get pulled over for that, NJ for instance. I'm pretty sure the people who drive slowly in the left lane have a special circle waiting for them.... in hell.

[abris33]

Again, the game isn't "based on" patience,

so you think you play your best golf when you're rushing through things.

[WilsonWill]

This is where the main disagreement comes from IMO. You are saying that you don't much enjoy slow play either, but you can't do anything about it so just sit back, relax and let it happen? Fact is, you CAN do something about it. You can call the proshop, look for a ranger, make it very obvious to the group ahead that they are holding you up. (By being out of the cart, teed up and ready to hit when they are on the green, plumb bobbing that 2 footer.) I have done all of these, and all have worked. To the poster who said he put one over their heads, IMO that is far worse than slow play.

Youre pretty much on the money. Im not condoning slow play in any way, shape or form. Im simply saying you have the choice of how to handle things. Once youve exhausted your options, you might as well sit back and relax, cause nothing is going to change. The only one suffering is you.

[Jared]

Youre pretty much on the money. Im not condoning slow play in any way, shape or form. Im simply saying you have the choice of how to handle things. Once youve exhausted your options, you might as well sit back and relax, cause nothing is going to change. The only one suffering is you.

As long as I still get to be mad about it.