Provisional ball and water hazards

[mruseless]

I was recently playing a hole where there was a water hazard that ran around the back of the green. I hit my approach shot long, and thought there was a chance it went into the hazard. Since I can't take a drop closer to the hole, and it was not possible to go to the far side of the hazard, I hit a second shot before going up to the green.

Now, according to the rules of golf, I think my second shot is automatically in play. I know that you are not entitled to a provisional ball if you think you've hit one into a water hazard. But to keep pace of play, would you rules guys out there have done what I did, or go look for the ball, then go back 140 yards if it was in the hazard? Or am I missing an option?

[Scrape-o-TheClown]

You are correct there is no provisional allowed for a ball believed to be in a water hazard. Technically you opted to take a stroke and distance penalty instead of evaluating your legal areas to take a drop (but like you said there may not have been one but if you examined closely i bet you could have found a proper drop). As soon as you dropped the ball from the original location that ball is in play and you have incurred a one stroke penalty.

[golf hungry]

Provisionals are only for lost ball and out of bounds. Depending on the stake color yellow you could go as far back as you'd like from the point of entry, and red you get 2 club lenghts no closer to hole.

[Scrape-o-TheClown]

I'm guessing it was a red stake because if had been a yellow stake and the hazrd was over the green he could have actually dropped the ball on the green. I have never thought about that but it would be legal if it was a yellow marked hazard.

[billm408]

I'm guessing it was a red stake because if had been a yellow stake and the hazrd was over the green he could have actually dropped the ball on the green. I have never thought about that but it would be legal if it was a yellow marked hazard.

Not quite. Yellow stakes indicate a water hazard and you have to keep the hazard between you and the target. It would be unusual to see yellow stakes behind the green. Even the ocean is staked red along the CA coast and you don't get water hazards much bigger than that!

[Leftygolfer]

There had to be a way to play it were it crossed into the hazard and no closer to the hole. It might be two club lengths sideways where you would almost have to drop in the hazard and then it goes in. Re-drop then goes in, then get to place it at that point. Is this correct? I am not a rules expert

[mruseless]

Yes, they were red stakes behind and around the green. Is there anything else that could have been done without sacrificing pace of play? We had a group right behind us, and I'm sure they would have been irritated if I would have looked for my first ball, then walked back up the fairway 140 yards or so.

[deronsizemore]

I'm guessing it was a red stake because if had been a yellow stake and the hazrd was over the green he could have actually dropped the ball on the green. I have never thought about that but it would be legal if it was a yellow marked hazard.

I believe it depends on where the ball crossed the hazard in relation to where the flag is and if it would be considered closer to the hole or not when you dropped. Here's an article outlining the situation. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...3/ai_94406220/ Red stakes indicate a lateral hazard which would allow you to drop on the green in some situations like this. You usually won't find a yellow staked area like this because typically yellow staked areas allow the golfer to drop behind the hazard keeping the point of entry between the golfer and the hole.

[deronsizemore]

Yes, they were red stakes behind and around the green. Is there anything else that could have been done without sacrificing pace of play? We had a group right behind us, and I'm sure they would have been irritated if I would have looked for my first ball, then walked back up the fairway 140 yards or so.

Here are your three options:

a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), or b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.

In a casual situation like this, I probably would have dropped on the edge of the green or green side rough where the ball entered the lateral hazard and attempted to drop no closer to the hole just for the sake of pace of play. In a tournament your three options above would have came into play.

[iacas]

I'm guessing it was a red stake because if had been a yellow stake and the hazrd was over the green he could have actually dropped the ball on the green. I have never thought about that but it would be legal if it was a yellow marked hazard.

This doesn't make any sense.

You can't drop within two club lengths in a yellow hazard, so that rules that possibility out (sometimes you can drop on the green for a red hazard using this rule). Yellow gives two options: point of entry on a direct line away from the flag (so there's no way you can drop on the green that way unless the water hazard cut REALLY severely into the green, which didn't happen here) or re-play the shot. S-o-C, you're a +1.1 and you don't know the rules for water hazards? Your response makes it sound like you've confused them quite badly - either the two-club-length rule (red stakes only) or the "line of flight" rule that some people think exists (it does not).

[mruseless]

I believe it depends on where the ball crossed the hazard in relation to where the flag is and if it would be considered closer to the hole or not when you dropped.

Interesting article!

There had to be a way to play it were it crossed into the hazard and no closer to the hole. It might be two club lengths sideways where you would almost have to drop in the hazard and then it goes in. Re-drop then goes in, then get to place it at that point. Is this correct? I am not a rules expert

I see what you mean, I'll keep that in mind for next time too.

[mruseless]

...or the "line of flight" rule that some people think exists (it does not).

Could you elaborate on this a little? My understanding is that line of flight is only used to determine the point where the ball crossed the margin of the hazard. Am I correct?

[Leftygolfer]

There had to be a way to play it were it crossed into the hazard and no closer to the hole. It might be two club lengths sideways where you would almost have to drop in the hazard and then it goes in. Re-drop then goes in, then get to place it at that point. Is this correct? I am not a rules expert

Can someone please confirm this as being an exceptable way to play a red staked hazard? I really would like to know. I try my very best to play by the rules and this seems like it would be the best option. As long as I am no closer to the hole and within 2 club lengths of where it went in I am ok, correct?

[iacas]

As long as I am no closer to the hole and within 2 club lengths of where it went in I am ok, correct?

If "went in" = "crossed the hazard line" (the water doesn't always go to the edge), then yeah, that's just about right. THere are some other things you have to worry about too, like the ball not rolling into the hazard and some other things, but again, you've got the basics.

[billm408]

As long as I am no closer to the hole and within 2 club lengths of where it went in I am ok, correct?

Two clubs lengths from nearest point of relief, no closer to the hole. Where the ball crossed the line of the hazard is your starting point, but not always your nearest point of relief.

[Scrape-o-TheClown]

Yeah I believe that is correct. So even if it was beyond the green you would still have to keep the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard between you and the hole and go back as far as you want which would still put you on the other side of the hazard. I knew something didnt seem write with what i said. Normally you see yellow staked hazard in front of a green.

[Scrape-o-TheClown]

Yes this is one of the option on a red staked hazard. You can "always" no matter what take a stroke and distance penalty.

[Leftygolfer]

Yes this is one of the option on a red staked hazard. You can "always" no matter what take a stroke and distance penalty.

That is the most penalizing option and prefer to not have to use it.