Question about local handicap

[NotAStick]

I have a question about a local "course" handicap.

I had always assumed that the local handicap accounted for both rating and slope. I haven't competed much with a handicap (I usually play informally, or to scratch).

My index recently moved to a 0.4 and I was just curious, so I checked my local handicap between the two courses I most frequently play.

One is rating/slope 70.3/122 and the other is 75.5/140. As you can see, there is a HUGE difference in the rating and slope. One plays about 6700 yards and the other plays almost 7500 yards. I often shoot 7-8 shots higher at the harder course.

I used the "course handicap calculator" at ghin.com and with a 0.4, it told me I was a 0 at both courses.

???

Thinking about it, maybe I interpret the course handicap wrong. I always assumed it calculated for the differential, using both rating and slope, but I'm seeing that it may only calculate based on slope, at which point it has nothing to do with differential.

Interesting.

Is this interpretation correct? Perhaps the concept is that I can compete equitably against a higher handicap at this course? I'm having trouble with it, because in my estimation, the forward tees are a fully 5-6 shots easier for me, but my local doesn't change at all on that harder course, even if I play four teeboxes forwards where the slope is 116 and I feel confident I can 68 pretty often, since I can drive three of the par 4s from up there and reach all 4 par 5s and NEVER have more than a sand wedge into the green.

I know, since the rating from those front tees is 68 instead of ~76, my differential for handicap purposes would still be correct, but how can I compete against someone in match play using a local handicap that doesn't account for the rating? Or does it just presume you're both playing the same tees?

How does that make for equitable competition?

[iacas]

I had always assumed that the local handicap accounted for both rating and slope.

Nope. Rating only comes into play if you're playing against someone from a different set of tees. Otherwise it's just slope: slope/113 * index.

One is rating/slope 70.3/122 and the other is 75.5/140. As you can see, there is a HUGE difference in the rating and slope. One plays about 6700 yards and the other plays almost 7500 yards. I often shoot 7-8 shots higher at the harder course.

That makes sense. 0.4 * 140/113 = 0.49557, which rounds down to 0. That's the higher slope, so the other will round down to 0 too.

Thing is, you shoot 77 at the harder course, and that's a differential of 1.2. You shoot 71 at the other course and the differential is 0.6. Six strokes, but 0.6 differential. Shoot a 76 at the harder course and the differential there is smaller: 0.4.

Thinking about it, maybe I interpret the course handicap wrong. I always assumed it calculated for the differential, using both rating and slope, but I'm seeing that it may only calculate based on slope, at which point it has nothing to do with differential.

Differentials are used to calculate your index. Your index is used to calculate your course handicap.

Beyond that, the two aren't really involved at all. Your course handicap doesn't determine or calculate your differential - that's backwards.

How can I compete against someone in match play using a local handicap that doesn't account for the rating? Or does it just presume you're both playing the same tees?

http://www.usga.org/playing/handicap...rent_tees.html There used to be an article with Snoopy, but since the USGA redid their site, I can't find it. Edit: Duh, just added "Snoopy" to my search terms there: http://www.usga.org/handicapping/pub...ifferent-Tees/

[NotAStick]

Wow, the things I didn't know.

I have been as low as +2.5, but I've been playing harder courses and more back tees and it definately drops my handicap. That's why the questions were lingering in my mind. I know I haven't been quite as consistent, but it felt a bit like it was getting flogged by the Tour difficulty courses that was the cause.



Anyway, thanks.

It really makes the question of "What is Tiger's Handicap" more interesting. Some recently calculations I saw suggested he would play to something like a +13.

Holy crap.

[AmenCorner]

+13 huh, I like my odds against Tiger getting 20 shots........I think............or not.

[Zeph]

At index 0.4, you won't get a higher local handicap until you reach a slope rating of 142 and upwards, then it will be 1. From 141 and down to 55, your local handicap will always be 0. I haven't studied the concept of playing from different tees, so there may be some variations there.

Here's an easy and useful link to the USGA local handicap calculation: http://www.usga.org/handicap/slope_calculator/index.asp

[iacas]

It really makes the question of "What is Tiger's Handicap" more interesting. Some recently calculations I saw suggested he would play to something like a +13.

More like a +8.0.

http://thesandtrap.com/the_numbers_g...es_of_the_pros

[NotAStick]

More like a +8.0.

The +13 number I saw was based on 2009 scores, rather than 2007 scores.

http://golfwashington.com/index.php/...-Handicap.html However, I think he does it wrong by multiplying by .96 rather than dividing. So maybe it's more like +12 based on 2009 scores. I'm not really sure where the rating/slope comes from. The courses are likely much harder than their normal rating/slope on the card with them firmed up. The pro at his local country club has said he routinely shoots 62 from the tips there and he says he has posted a few scores of 58 and 59. I think I saw the rating there is around 74-75, which would be a differential of -16. Could you maintain a +8 if you ever posted a -16? Interesting calculation, but it's not entirely practical.

[iacas]

However, I think he does it wrong by multiplying by .96 rather than dividing.

He divided rather than multiplied. He should have multiplied.

[Harry SasQuatch]

When you get into the plus handicaps you have to divide as he explains in the paragraph above the calculations. Not sure how accurate his information is but +13.75 is ridiculous!

[iacas]

When you get into the plus handicaps you have to divide as he explains in the paragraph above the calculations. Not sure how accurate his information is but +13.75 is ridiculous!

His explanation isn't right, though: you don't divide. It's a "bonus for excellence" that they give to the plus indexes.

[zeg]

Another way to think about why you should always multiply to maintain the "bonus for excellence" nature of the multiplier. Suppose instead of multiplying the handicap index by 0.96 you kept the previous value, computed the strokes to give based on that, then multiplied by 0.96. The math is the same in the end, but the expression makes it clear what's happening. In this method, if A has a + handicap and has to "give back" 5 strokes and B has a regular handicap and "gets" 10 strokes, you'd give 0.96*(10+5)=14.4 strokes instead of 15. Thus the worse player gets ~ half a stroke less help.

The calculations are reshuffled, but I believe this is the same result in the end.