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Posted
Think I had one of those Random Breakthroughs.

So, I went and played 9 on a nearby PnP par 3 with the New Golf Buddy. He's a bogey golfer, and was far more helpful than my actual Golf Lesson Person was. However, my main problem remained: I could not make consistent contact. While nearly everything I hit goes straight -- I was hitting it fat 75% of the time, and thin 20% of the time with the remaining 5% belonging in 'Who the hell knows what's going to happen' territory.

He was encouraging me to keep my front heel down on the backswing -- And it DID seem to help me with more consistent contact, but felt awkward and uncontrolled. Also, it gave me a tendency to not shifting my weight and just flinging my arms at the ball with mixedly bad results.

Anyway, last night on a slow work day I read Harvey Penick's Little Red Book. I focused on a few points -- To paraphrase; what works for one doesn't work for another, naturally lifting the heel isn't a bad thing, and the key point of dropping the rear elbow with a weight shift to the front leg.

I came home this morning and, being an idiot, brazenly ignored my doctor's orders about taking two weeks off... (I tore some rib cartilage. Being in the medical profession, I am a lousy patient.)

I was only hitting my plastic air-flows up against the wall -- But the difference was astoundingly apparent even with those stupid little things. Suddenly, the ball had loft! And I was, bizarrely enough, HITTING it -- All while letting my heel come off the ground as much as it damn well pleased.

Promising.

Anyway, some questions: What are your thoughts on the front heel leaving the ground on the backswing? When I -don't- do it, I feel awkward and off-balance. When I just freely and comfortably backswing, the heel comes up QUITE a bit, and my front knee actually angles inward. This a bad habit, or just how my body works?

The rear elbow. My friend and my former Golf Lesson Person were insistent that it be tucked down into my side/hip at the top of my backswing... while keeping my front arm straight (I'm using relative terms as I'm a lefty and it gets confusing to say right/left).

Now... I'm pretty flexible, but I have long gangly arms (5'9" with a 74" reach)... this is a physical impossibility. Not worrying about it and dropping my elbow into the hip with the forward weight shift seems to have great results, but is there some way/should I focus on controlling that flying elbow tendency?

Even though I'm off the range for at least a few days (Doc says two weeks. Augh.), the airflow results are -so- dramatic that I'm hopeful that I've started to grasp a way to make solid consistent contact.

Can't wait to get back to my regular practice routine (1-2hr, 5-6x/week. I'm... obsessive a bit.)

Currently in my bag:  Under Revision


Posted

I’m inclined to believe that the only position that really matters in the golf swing is the impact position… however you get there, but as long as you get there.

This guy lifted his left heel, and he kept it in play… and he had what could be called a “flying right elbow.”

"Every man is his own hell" - H.L. Mencken


Posted
Heh! There are shades of how I ended up, there. (Particularly with the front knee twisting in and the relatively slow and straight-back sweep of the early backswing before a shoulder turn...) In the end, I don't care how Furyk-ish my swing might look... If I make contact and it's relatively straight, I'm happy.

(I guess 'Happy' isn't hard. I've shanked shots off into the wilderness and been happy: "Hahaha! I'm a dumba$$!" Then cheerfully go punch it out of Deep Dark Africa.)

That reminds me of one shot I -can- hit consistently well... and I hope it's only rarely useful in the future: Put my ball in the deep rough thicket forest, I can chop-punch it to a good position. (I punched one through the trees onto the green with taunting golf-bud shouting 'Good luck from over there in Jumanji, ha ha!'.) Made similar shots four times in nine holes... which tells you how bad every other swing is.

Another problem I have is follow-through. It's entirely mental. Stupid plastic ball, no problem. On the range/course, I seem to hold up my club right at 90 degrees vertical.

Currently in my bag:  Under Revision


Posted
Got to the range this morning and hit some actual balls.

Wow.

While I haven't figured out my long clubs just yet (The club pro actually stopped to watch me for a bit and filled me in on a couple quirky things I was doing with them), I hit my irons solidly... For pretty much the first time, ever.

Only had a 7i, PW, and SW for steel irons in my bag. In stark contrast to my former ball-striking phenomenon of every club in the bag having the same distance, there were consistent and crisp differences in loft and carry of each club. (About 120, 90, and 70 respectively.)

Huge thanks to Harvey Penick. I had been trying to follow the 'Do it this way' guidance of some more... compact...individuals. Swing felt 100% smoother when I let my gangly spider monkey arms just do their gangly spider monkey arm thing so long as I drive my rear elbow down on the downswing.

This of course has only fueled an addiction.

Currently in my bag:  Under Revision


Note: This thread is 6011 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • Nah, man. People have been testing clubs like this for decades at this point. Even 35 years. @M2R, are you AskGolfNut? If you're not, you seem to have fully bought into the cult or something. So many links to so many videos… Here's an issue, too: - A drop of 0.06 is a drop with a 90 MPH 7I having a ball speed of 117 and dropping it to 111.6, which is going to be nearly 15 yards, which is far more than what a "3% distance loss" indicates (and is even more than a 4.6% distance loss). - You're okay using a percentage with small numbers and saying "they're close" and "1.3 to 1.24 is only 4.6%," but then you excuse the massive 53% difference that going from 3% to 4.6% represents. That's a hell of an error! - That guy in the Elite video is swinging his 7I at 70 MPH. C'mon. My 5' tall daughter swings hers faster than that.
    • Yea but that is sort of my quandary, I sometimes see posts where people causally say this club is more forgiving, a little more forgiving, less forgiving, ad nauseum. But what the heck are they really quantifying? The proclamation of something as fact is not authoritative, even less so as I don't know what the basis for that statement is. For my entire golfing experience, I thought of forgiveness as how much distance front to back is lost hitting the face in non-optimal locations. Anything right or left is on me and delivery issues. But I also have to clarify that my experience is only with irons, I never got to the point of having any confidence or consistency with anything longer. I feel that is rather the point, as much as possible, to quantify the losses by trying to eliminate all the variables except the one you want to investigate. Or, I feel like we agree. Compared to the variables introduced by a golfer's delivery and the variables introduced by lie conditions, the losses from missing the optimal strike location might be so small as to almost be noise over a larger area than a pea.  In which case it seems that your objection is that the 0-3% area is being depicted as too large. Which I will address below. For statements that is absurd and true 100% sweet spot is tiny for all clubs. You will need to provide some objective data to back that up and also define what true 100% sweet spot is. If you mean the area where there are 0 losses, then yes. While true, I do not feel like a not practical or useful definition for what I would like to know. For strikes on irons away from the optimal location "in measurable and quantifiable results how many yards, or feet, does that translate into?"   In my opinion it ok to be dubious but I feel like we need people attempting this sort of data driven investigation. Even if they are wrong in some things at least they are moving the discussion forward. And he has been changing the maps and the way data is interpreted along the way. So, he admits to some of the ideas he started with as being wrong. It is not like we all have not been in that situation 😄 And in any case to proceed forward I feel will require supporting or refuting data. To which as I stated above, I do not have any experience in drivers so I cannot comment on that. But I would like to comment on irons as far as these heat maps. In a video by Elite Performance Golf Studios - The TRUTH About Forgiveness! Game Improvement vs Blade vs Players Distance SLOW SWING SPEED! and going back to ~12:50 will show the reference data for the Pro 241. I can use that to check AskGolfNut's heat map for the Pro 241: a 16mm heel, 5mm low produced a loss of efficiency from 1.3 down to 1.24 or ~4.6%. Looking at AskGolfNut's heatmap it predicts a loss of 3%. Is that good or bad? I do not know but given the possible variations I am going to say it is ok. That location is very close to where the head map goes to 4%, these are very small numbers, and rounding could be playing some part. But for sure I am going to say it is not absurd. Looking at one data point is absurd, but I am not going to spend time on more because IME people who are interested will do their own research and those not interested cannot be persuaded by any amount of data. However, the overall conclusion that I got from that video was that between the three clubs there is a difference in distance forgiveness, but it is not very much. Without some robot testing or something similar the human element in the testing makes it difficult to say is it 1 yard, or 2, or 3?  
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