Bridgestone Thread

[Chas]

  iacas said:

Now you've both managed to make me a liar, but I'm really done at this point.

Don't be concerned about that. You used your discretion, as all good officials should ......

Thanks for taking the time to rebut my post in detail, I truly appreciate it and you made your points cogently. I acknowlege them all. I'm not going to prolong this by rebutting your rebuttal point-by-point, and besides I found out only this morning that just about everything that needs to be said has already been said on another thread. How did I miss that yesterday I'm wondering ..... I respect your point of view and you certainly know more than I about how the time rules are actually implemented in tournaments. Perhaps I underestimate the rigor with which this is done at PGA events but we're all speculating on that one to some extent since we don't have all the necessary data. I concede your much greater experience in observing tournaments and to the extent that you're right, that aspect of the argument is in your favor I grant you. Allowing more discretion for officials (even with clear guidelines) does have its dangers, but IMO it's better than unnecessarily and unduly influencing the course of events in a tense battle between front runners in the last pairing by starting a totally gratuitous clock. A distinction should be made in cases where the play of no other golfers can possibly be harmed and everything is on the line, as in this case. Will you concede one point Erik .... that it would have been much better had the whistle been blown many holes earlier than the 16th? I'd like to learn more about the possibility that CBS pressured tournament officials to adhere absolutely to the clock (the sanctity of the 6 p.m. slot), even against their better judgment. Most likely not at that moment but in discussions beforehand, by setting expectations. Who exactly is driving the bus here? Tiger was raising the question by implication in one interview - the clock he alluded to was not the one measuring lapsed time on the course but the clock on the wall of certain corporate scions. Tiger's words must have royally p****d off a few people in high places I daresay - major kudos to him for speaking so candidly, right or wrong. It would be very interesting to find out who said what to whom and when. Count me deeply skeptical on that one as well. But Paddy will bounce back. He knows that he messed up in the clutch and didn't make excuses for himself. Classy. I doubt he'll let something like that happen again. More importantly, he proved to himself last week that his game is back where it was when he was winning majors. Good luck to the Irishman! Regards, Charles.

[iacas]

  Chas said:

Allowing more discretion for officials (even with clear guidelines) does have its dangers, but IMO it's better than unnecessarily and unduly influencing the course of events in a tense battle between front runners in the last pairing by starting a totally gratuitous clock.

That's where we'll continue to disagree - I don't see it as "gratuitous." It's the rule, and the officials have a responsibility to enforce it equitably against every golfer in the field. Position in the tournament and/or world ranking doesn't/shouldn't matter.

  Chas said:

Will you concede one point Erik .... that it would have been much better had the whistle been blown many holes earlier than the 16th?

They were warned earlier. They still hadn't sped up. Standard operating procedures and rules were followed. It was close from holes 6-16, but they weren't technically in breach until after they played 15. They were kept within range of the group in front by some bizarre rulings and things up ahead (JB Holmes on 16 backed up many holes), but when they hit 16, they were not only behind the time, but the entire hole was open. Remember both Paddy and Tiger had some lengthy par or birdie putts on those holes - they took longer to play those holes than they should have, particularly since they were already about 0.94 holes behind from holes 6 to 15.

Rules, like I've said, have lines. They were barely on the safe side of the line until 16. Then they weren't. Now, as a fan I really wish Paddy had played faster all day (and, Tiger too, but between the two Paddy's the slower player) so that they hadn't been warned. But as a golfer I think the rules were followed as they should be. I haven't heard anyone else - not a commentator, not a player, and not an official - say anything bad about how the ruling went. The only two who's really said anything was Tiger, and that's partly him trying to be a gracious winner, and Paddy, who has basically said "my fault" and moved on. Everyone else has said "it's a bummer, but the rules have to be enforced equitably." Furyk, Els, Cink, Chamblee, Nobilo, etc. Did it ruin things? Perhaps, yeah, we'll never know. But Paddy brought it on himself, and maybe he'll play a little faster now when he starts to fall behind. Maybe other players will as well. I do hope I'm done now. It's PGA week and I have a tournament of my own on Fri-Sun, which unfortunately will NOT have a slow play policy. Yawn.

[enduro]

A valid argument for timing and such is that part of the game is planning and executing the shot in a certain time. You don't get a chance to keep debating what to do. It requires quick thinking and sound execution.

Maybe they need to really start enforcing pace and make it more of a factor. Put shot clocks on various parts of the hole.

It worked for basketball!