Learning swing lag thru slow motion (frustrated)

[TN94z]

I can't speak for low handicappers, but I agree with you in allowing the release to occur passively.

That and the fact that some people just can't "naturally" get the wrist bow that every "high level" golfer has. For example, the scoop and chicken wing. That is natural to some people and they have to physically think of rolling their wrist or forearms to get the correct impact position.

I asked my teacher if one should concentrate on body and shoulder turn to get this impact position or do you have to manipulate your hands. He said that body and shoulder is good but that you have to manipulate your hands (arms or wrists) to get to that position.

[enduro]

How do you shape shots (draw, fade, high, low, spin, no spin) without manipulating the club?

It's static. You do this before you swing. It's opening and closing the face at grip and address. It's changing the stance at address.

Why would I ever try and manipulate the club when swinging? It is impossible to do consistently. I know this because I used to try and was terrible because of it. And then it clicked one day that I shouldn't do this. And I just swung and it worked.

[enduro]

I can't speak for low handicappers, but I agree with you in allowing the release to occur passively.

Yeah. All these little things.

I just try and envision how can I make the club go fastest when it hits the ball. That mental image works well for me. Keeps the mind clear. I recommend to people to take the thumb and pointer finger off the club on the right hand. And then also get some old clubs and swing as if to throw them as far as you can and actually do that. That is the feeling I think you want.

[Zeph]

I never learned to get lag, it came automatically when doing the rest of the swing right. What made a huge difference for me was the hips and head on the downswing along with swing plane and wrists. I did try to learn it by moving in slow motion, but it doesn't matter how much I was trying, as long as I didn't swing properly, I had no chance of creating lag.

In short: At the top of the backswing, the hips push to the left and start turning, this is pulling my arms down, creating lag. At the same time, the head does not move laterally during the downswing, this is a crucial detail.
At the start of the backswing I take the club away on plane and keep a flat left wrist.

If I don't get the weight over to the left and push the hips out, my arms have no chance to find the slot, I come over the top and casting is inevitable. Don't try to learn lag with a faulty swing, learn the basic fundamentals and get the body to work together and you'll get lag.

[enduro]

Don't try to learn lag with a faulty swing, learn the basic fundamentals and get the body to work together and you'll get lag.

I agree 100%. All these things we read about come naturally when you're SWINGING the club. We analyze these things a lot and read things that say "try not and do this until this part" when it's impossible to time such things.

The muscles work in connection with each other. This lag will be created when you swing right. When you actually swing the club. As soon as someone says they can't create lag, or they slice it a lot, etc, you know they are wristing the ball. I really believe there isn't much you can do to influence the down swing once it has started. It is a function of everything you've done to that point and then the body and shoulder rotation. Just need to try and focus on getting that feeling of power running through the arms hands and into the club head as you slap the ball. It's so hard to explain this basic movement but it's incredibly intuitive once you figure it out, if that makes sense, lol. The swing becomes the easiest part of golf eventually. Distance, club selection, mental focus, chipping, putting, wind and rain, shot shaping, regression prevention, etc become the hard part eventually. Some people have it naturally. Others work and work and finally get it. You can be told a million things but you can't do it until you just swing the damn club freely.

[Leek]

I guess the question is what are you trying to accomplish/learn?

Is it lag pressure (according to TGM the secret to golf)?

Is it trigger delay?

Why do you need to learn whichever one you are asking about? How will it help your game?

Your original post sounds like you should learn to get through impact with a flat left wrist.

I can give you some drills/exercises that can teach you any of these if you let me know what you want.

[TN94z]

It's static. You do this before you swing. It's opening and closing the face at grip and address. It's changing the stance at address.

So what about the tons of people that do this by delaying the release or releasing the club early? And the guys that can't get the impact position by body and shoulder turn naturally?

[enduro]

So what about the tons of people that do this by delaying the release or releasing the club early? And the guys that can't get the impact position by body and shoulder turn naturally?

Who does that?

Whoever they are, I'm happy for them and hope their game is great. I can't do that. there's no way I'm going to consistently make the exact right movement consciously with my hands. It would ruin me more than I already am, lol. I feel like I can control my torque and that's about it. The club is doing what it does after I get it going. But I can count on it doing this 1 thing. I never consciously release the club. I don't believe it can be done and don't know how I'd do it without confusing the release with flipping. I rely on constants. Constants such as the physical world we live in. As I get my body and shoulders going my arms are pulled and this naturally straightens them out and accelerates them into the ball. How else would I do that? I can't imagine holding on longer and fighting against this natural motion. If others can do it consistently, then I'd say go for it. To me it's easier to open or close the club face and address and then swing the same than to try and make some last millisecond edit to the swing to control the ball. But, if something works for someone, who am I to tell them otherwise?

[pittpanther]

The golf swing is such a weird thing because we over analyze it and nit-pick every little step, as if we have control over them. We really don't to a degree. We can control how grip, address, waggle and backswing and then our hips and shoulders to a degree. But really, you just get them going and everything magically happens. Yet we spend a lot of time trying to make this intricate downswing. We can't. Your downswing is a function of all these other things. All you can control is how hard you get your body and shoulders turning.

I agree with you, guy. All this swing analysis, it's like trying to learn to dance by putting pictures of feet on the floor - step here, then here... I don't know anyone who can learn like this.

Two good drills - throw clubs, and swing while listening for the whistle of the shaft.

[TN94z]

Who does that?

Well, to name a pro, Tiger. To hit a fade, he holds off his release, etc...An amateur is me. I am actually working on the wrist bow at impact right now. I had a slight scoop at impact and I am working on getting rid of that. To do this, I have to consciously think about what my wrist and forearms are doing. Trust me...I am not the only one that has to do this. It is not an uncommon thing to have to think about it. Now obviously, once I get it in my muscle memory, I will not have to think about it that much (hopefully). As far as working the ball, I actually do that the same way you do. But I know a few golfers that work the ball like Tiger does.

So my point is, that unless you are lucky enough to have the correct impact position naturally with your body turn, etc....then you have to work to get that into muscle memory and this requires focusing on the particular movements that make this happen. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that you are wrong or anything. I am just saying that many people don't have that naturally.

[enduro]

Two good drills - throw clubs, and swing while listening for the whistle of the shaft.

I agree with the throw clubs drill. Don't use good clubs obviously but grab some old ones and find a safe place to throw clubs a considerable distance and go for it.

It sounds weird but an instructor recommended it to me and I got some feel from it. When I did it, I made sure I was in a large area with no one around. Not so much so I didn't hit anyone but because it's really bizarre to see someone just throwing club after club, lol.

[yygolfnb]

Welcome to the club!

There are a few things I'd summarized from my own learning experience. Firstly, you need to visualize what is lag to you. Most people use wrist cock or angle bwt forearm and shaft. It is also important to visualize that the club head is actually revolving initially on a smaller radius arc and then accelerate to a larger radius arc because of the power applied on it. So if you cannot set the head from small to large radius or in to out path when impact, than basically you are out to in ==> casting/early release. It is also important to understand that once the head is accelerating from small arc to large arc, there is no way you can reverse that back to smaller radius. Secondly, if you feel that at the top of backswing you need to do something to the club for whatever reason, then you are screwed because once the head start to accelerate, it will just spin outward faster and faster. Lastly, you should know that there is a long wait between the top of back swing to start of impact zone where there is nothing need to be done (or should be done) to the club. So if you cannot hold your breath for that quiet long wait and skillfully balance the club in between, again, it is very likely that you will cast the club. The above is my lag game. One more thing. a correct and powerful swing should feel tensionless arm. If you feel that you need to start earlier for a longer "power on" arc, you can try to grip down 1/2 or full inch. That will make it easier to accelerate the club head.

I have tried everything, including an instructor, to conquer my swing lag problem (or lack thereof).

[drocpdp]

I'm considering getting more intense private instruction to gain swing lag. WOuld you recommend that? Or is it really all about knowing what to do and just coming upon your own personal "Feel" of it by practicing on your own?

[TN94z]

I'm considering getting more intense private instruction to gain swing lag. WOuld you recommend that? Or is it really all about knowing what to do and just coming upon your own personal "Feel" of it by practicing on your own?

Well, if you have swing flaws then that may be the reason you lack lag now. If you see a teacher and he fixes your flaws, then you will probably gain the lag you are looking for.

[Leek]

Who does that?

I hit a draw or a fade by changing my swing. I hit a fade by making sure my hands are farther ahead of the clubhead through impact and swinging a bit more to the left. I hit a draw by imagining the toe leading the club through impact and swinging a bit more to the right. I think this is somewhat common.

[Leek]

I'm considering getting more intense private instruction to gain swing lag. WOuld you recommend that? Or is it really all about knowing what to do and just coming upon your own personal "Feel" of it by practicing on your own?

It can't hurt if you go to a good instructor. Remeber a good instructor will want to understand what you want to accomplish and why. Why do you want more lag?