Titleist 695cb vs 695mb

[RichF]

I'd like to know how this little expirement worked out. I'd bet the OP is probably around the same handicap less than a year later, maybe worse, after buying those blades.

I can't speak for the OP but I'm talking to those +14 handicappers who really think clubs have anything to do with their score

as well as that certain low handicapper snob that insist blades are for experts. Blades are, indeed, for good players. But blades are also an excellent choice for the novice who wants to learn. IMO, there are two kinds of blade players: 1) Those who have been playing since they were 7 years old 2) Those that spend hours on the range hitting hundreds of balls. Both are true. But there is the novice (any age) who wants to learn how to properly strike the golf ball. I was a twice-a-year golf-playing-hack for 15 years that started actually 'learning' golf 12 months ago. My handicap was +25. I purchased a set of Mizuno MX-19 cavity-backs and started taking lessons and hitting around 150 balls each day (range and course) - 4 days a week. I then added some individual bladed irons - 3, 6, 7, 8 iron - and started using those - improvement came and I'm now pretty solid at +15 with more confidence than ever with my swing. And for once I really know what my weaknesses are and where I need to improve. The low (and high) handicappers would look increduously when I showed up at the range with those blades as they watched my ugly swing: swaying hips, over rotating waist, bent left arm, moving head, improper grip, alignment, stance and ball placement, outside-in swing, clubhead in front of the hands when I struck the ball. The blades had absolutely NOTHING to do with my hitting. I did the above whether I was using a CB or a MB. One of those guys even came up to me and said, 'You know those clubs are for players way above your ability. You should try a more forgiving club'. That happened with the cavity back clubs too. Most of the slices and pulls felt good though. That's bad, IMO: never make your dog feel good when he takes a dump on your rug. However, with my Titleist and Nike bladed-irons, thin hits would send irritating vibrations up the shaft and promptly punish each bad shot. Nothing feels as good as a properly hit ball on a blade. And that's exactly the point. And what better way to learn than to only reward a properly struck ball? Do you want a club that is forgiving? The mere notion of "forgiveness" in a golf club is a specious concept conceived by marketers to fill your bag with "new and improved shortcuts" that will compensate for your unwillingness to practice, take lessons and learn how to properly strike the golf ball: "Hey! Look! I've been playing 2 months and I can hit a 3-iron 250 yards!!!" Too many folks today love shortcuts and quick fixes. The 'I-Want-It-Now' Generation. (the same generation whose demand for credit / living-in-debt hasn't helped us in the financial state we're currently in) Anyway, imagine a "forgiving" baseball bat, or a "forgiving" wife. Before you know it the whole system breaks down. Anyone who knows how to properly strike the golf ball should select the club they like best. And anyone who doesn't know how to properly strike the golf ball, well, there isn't a club made that is going to help your game. If you really want to learn how to play this game you can do it but it takes real commitment - practice, lessons and hard work. For once I can play golf and feel satisfied I am not an embarrasment to myself. The game has been transformed from an exercise in agony to something of pure pleasure. If I can trim +10-15 strokes in 12 months with pure blades, anyone can. My goal is a single digit handicap. It's going to take longer to shave off the next 6 than it did to take down the last 15. But now I know exactly what I need to work on and it is realistic given my ability and commitment. BTW, longfornothing , there must have been an awful lot of weekend 'God-like' players in the 60s and 70s, eh?

[DDBowdoin]

I will say one thing about blades.... if you have some cash to blow it's definitely a nice investment but it all depends on what you expect to get out of them. You will struggly, badly, at first and the clubs will not make your swing better in any way but what I love about blades is their brutal honesty. Super game improvement clubs mask your flaws by making bad shots seem ok, so mentally you're being tricked by your clubs. I guess it comes down to how people asses the outcome of their swing... to many straight and in the air is great, regardless of accuracy and distance control. So if you expect a set of blades to all of a sudden make you a better player its just not going to happen. You'll have to committ yourself to the investment, really work hard at the range and take your time with the blades. It's impossible to base blades based on handicaps because of other aspects of the game... my brother can't get off the tee for his life but he'll stripe any iron in his hand hence why he is a 14 handicap because he blows strokes in penalty strokes and putting the ball in impossible angles.

I think its a good investment if you have the money but dont jump into any tournaments any time soon

[longfornothing]

BTW, longfornothing, there must have been an awful lot of weekend 'God-like' players in the 60s and 70s, eh?

Nope, just a bunch of miserable hacks spraying balatas into the woods. I would bet percentage wise, that the same amount of good players exist today vs. when they didn't have hacker clubs.

So I guess you are using a Persimmon driver too, eh? What about balls? I don't know how you categorize me, but I'm a 13 hcp and I play on a little Am Tour, all I care about is what I write down on that card. Lowest score possible. Blades will not produce this for me, not for 90% of all golfers out there.

[RichF]

Nope, just a bunch of miserable hacks spraying balatas into the woods. I would bet percentage wise, that the same amount of good players exist today vs. when they didn't have hacker clubs.

Well, I think I probably take my golf

too seriously then.

[EquipmentJunkie]

Nope, just a bunch of miserable hacks spraying balatas into the woods. I would bet percentage wise, that the same amount of good players exist today vs. when they didn't have hacker clubs.

Golf snobs ruin the game for new comers, just because my handicap may be higher than yours does not mean I am miserable. I enjoy playing any chance I get thank you.

[RichF]

Golf snobs ruin the game for new comers, just because my handicap may be higher than yours does not mean I am miserable. I enjoy playing any chance I get thank you.

You might be right.

I can't be doing with those who can't actually hit a golf ball correctly unless they're using a full set of utility 'cheat-sticks' .....then I say you don't really like or enjoy golf.

[EquipmentJunkie]

You might be right.

I think you may have missed my point or in fact made it for me. I don't think other golfers should define what golf is outside of the rules (and a fast pace of play of course) for new comers. My father for example, is not as serious about the game as I am, he is also getting older and has sustained some knee and back injuries that no amount of exercise and rehab will overcome. Why would I insist he use blades or traditional irons when a set of SGI irons or a hybrid set like Adams or Cleveland makes will make the game more fun him. He isn't playing for money or in tournaments for prizes. As long as his clubs are conforming within the rules I couldn't care less what type of sticks he is hitting. Attitudes like that is what cause people to quit the sport. I am not suggesting foregoing rules or etiquette but it is important that game remains fun and encouraging as well, especially to the youngling and senior crowd. My guess is your locale (UK) also has something to do with the alleged snobbery and attitude but I don't want to generalize based on my anecdotal experiences.

[longfornothing]

I'm no snob. Just a realist. I'm don't even fancy myself as that good of a golfer. To me, a good golfer shoots 76 and under every time he tees it up. I'm not even breaking 80, but I do shoot 80-84 3 out of 4 rounds. From what ever tee box. Tips, middle, doesn't matter. Probably middle of the road at this point.

Rich,
I still want to know how the swing is with the blades close to year later. In other words, did the blades in fact make the player a better ball striker and add consistency and accuracy? Did it?

I see where you are coming from, I was like that too when I first saw the Mizuno Pro T-Zoids. Still have them today. They are all shiny and sexy sitting in an old bag in my shop. I still grab an iron from time to time and toss into my other bag to take some swings with. It only takes about 5 swings before I put it back into the bag smiling. These days I'm coming from the other end of the spectrum. I'm in it for the competition. I like a challenging course, in tough conditions, tough opponent, and the challenge of trying to keep my swing together, while trying to shoot as low as possible. I still enjoy the sight and sound of a well struck ball flying in the air, the sweet feeling of catching one pure, teeing off at Day break and all that stuff.

It's sort of like this. Your playing for $300. You have your blades and all that nostalgia stuff in one bag, then in another bag, you have some hacker clubs that are hideous to look at. You are way more consistent, confident, and accurate with the hacker clubs. You can hit the hacker clubs the right distance and right where you were aiming on 4 out of 5 swings during a round. And you know it too. It's been proven in the heat of battle. Now, you glance over at the blades. I don't doubt for a second that you can "technically" hit the blades. But, is it the right distance and where you were aiming on 4 out of 5 swings during a round? Can you hit them accurately and the correct distance with $300 on the line? Which set are you taking with you?

For my game, the answer is hacker club. It's not even close for me. I play to score great and want whatever it is that is going to help me do that. I can hit blades, but hit hacker clubs at least 50% better. It is more than just "enjoying" the game, it is beating your buddies and winning your flight and winning money, which results from scoring your best. I don't care what my swing looks like, I just want to shoot the best score I can.

After beating my head in, by trying the "improve your swing by hitting blades" theory, I wasn't having fun losing 3-4 balls a round and putting down scores over 90 in tournament play. Hacker clubs let me just repeat the natural swing I have, plus I have more fun and shoot lower scores. So to all who wish to torture themselves out on the range/course for enjoyment, knock yourself out. Like I said earlier, been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

I don't know if you can put a handicap threshold on who should be playing blades or not, but for sure no 12+ player should be playing blades. Just ignorance and ego. Plus in the end, they won't get better, most will quit.

That is where I'm coming from.

[mattymz1]

I would recommend the shallow cavity backs over the muscleback irons. I have mp-30s which are the same style as the 695 CB. They are workable and have a buttery feel, but are much more forgiving on slight mishits than a true muscleback blade. This is why many tour pros play this style of iron instead of a blade. That being said, you still need to be a pretty good ball striker in order to play either of these irons. In the long run they will probably make you a more consistent iron player if you keep practicing.

[RichF]

Rich,

It's hard to answer the first question cos I haven't touched a cavity-back iron for 5 months. However, I do concede that the Titleist 695.MB irons (and probably most of the other modern blades) I use now are more forgiving than a set of say, MacGregor Muifields from the mid-1980s.

As for making me a better ball-striker - all I can say is that today (yesterday, in fact), the 3-iron is my 'go-to' club if I'm struggling with either driver or 3-wood. I'm about 10-15 yards shorter with this than when I used my Mizuno cavity-back 3-iron but then that's cos it had a loft of 20°! The fact that my scores aren't tumbling faster is that I struggle from around 30-50 yards out and my putting isn't stellar either. But if I'm 'on', then I hit GIR around 65-70% with approaches from around 150-yards in. I agree that a hybrid or cavity-backed set may help some player shoot a better score. But what exactly are you looking for in a 'better score'? Early 90s instead of late 90s? If that's the improvement that you're looking for, then fine. But if the long term goal is to shot 80-85 or better, the long irons are the best clubs to learn to hit. They can be difficult, but if a person puts in the work to learn to hit them, 'every' club becomes easy to hit, your confidence goes high and then you are really seeing better scores. Furthermore, I've just added a 2-iron to my bag. The modern ball has affected things somewhat, but I'm still perfectly capable of getting a usable ballflight from a long iron and I'm far more confident hitting a variety of shots with them versus a hybrid or lofted wood. Admittedly, I'm not playing a 7000-7300 yard layout with lots of long, forced carries into long par 4s and par 5s every day, but in the conditions I typically face, the ability to hit a variety of shots with a long iron either from the tee or the deck is a definite asset. I'm fully aware that the current trend is to bash people who even consider playing blades - but I just don't buy that and I say the modern blades are perfectly easy enough to hit, plenty forgiving, and yet still demanding enough to require a proper, solid strike - where some of the 'game improvement' stuff never really encourages you to work on your game since it covers up your mistakes to a certain degree. But who knows, maybe next summer I'll ditch the 695s for some AP2s and see what happens! But....I do agree with you to a point - you're probably right about the mid-to-high handicapper struggling and quitting but they are those who play golf very sporadically and maybe aren't on 'Planet Golf' like myself.

[RichF]

BTW, a couple of things that annoy me about this whole 'Blades v Cavity Backs' or 'Everyone Needs A Hybrid'....the main arguments I see/hear are 'Oh well, if most of the pros don't use blades, then why should you ?'

That is cos we ain't playing for mega-money, week-in, week-out.

[longfornothing]

Hybrids do stink. I'll give you that. A 2 iron can be a very versatile club. Nothing link the experience of flushing a 2 iron and hitting it 15 ft off the ground and having it roll 250 yds. I'm glad you are on "Planet Golf". It takes all of us to make the world go around.

[odstore]

I agree that a hybrid or cavity-backed set may help some player shoot a better score. But what exactly are you looking for in a 'better score'?

At the end of the day what's wrong with wanting to shoot a lower score? I'd much rather shoot 75 and feel like I wasn't hitting the ball well than feel like my ball striking was on but just couldn't score. I play blades but plenty of pro's don't. Does this mean that they have the wrong intentions for playing golf? Some people don't have the time to be practicing every day and game improvement irons make the game more enjoyable for them. If the only thing you care about is how well you hit the ball then there's no reason to keep score at all. I'm glad that I've reached a point in my game where I feel comfortable with playing blades but if I thought for a second that they were costing me strokes they wouldn't be in my bag anymore.

[EquipmentJunkie]

That is cos we ain't playing for mega-money, week-in, week-out.

So by that logic...we should play cubs that are more difficult than pros use (who are much better than any of us) because we don't play for money? That doesn't make any sense to me.

[RichF]

So by that logic...we should play clubs that are more difficult than pros use (who are much better than any of us) because we don't play for money? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Nah...you've missed the point there.