Are high handicappers losers?

[FHopper]

In several threads I have read comments from low handicappers that make me question my value as a golfer. Comments that a high handicapper may be lying if he says they can hit a ball a long way. Comments that high handicappers should play short tees because they must be slowing the pace of play from regular tees. Or that a high handicapper should be working on their game to develop a lower index.

It seems to me that there are a lot of people capable of hitting a ball a long distance and not putting together a low scoring round.

It seems to me that the pace of play is more affected by losing balls than taking three tries to chip a ball 15 yards.

It seems to me that if a person comes home from the course glad that they got to play then their handicap is irrelevant to Golf Happiness.

I would guess most low indexes reflect minimal physical limitations and time on task; not everyone gets to factor strong numbers for those into their golf equation. I am dazzled by the grace and command of the game from a single digit player, but I am no less entertained by a 70 year old duffer who chips in from 15 and gets cheers from his buds.

Are we losers or simply the masses that pay for the courses?

[lefty.drew]

I think it's ridiculous to assume someone with a high handicap is lying if they say they can hit the ball long. I can drive the ball 300 yards straight down the fairway. I can also yank it 130 into a huge tree. It's not distance that neccesarily seperates good from mediocre (what I like to call myself !) to not so good; it's precision.

I also agree 100% on the losing balls point. From my experience, the number one reason people hold up play is that they're looking for errant tee shots. you will occasionally get the person who thinks the golf course is the best place for a begginer's lesson, but it's ussually the latter.

Plus, winning and losing is all perspective. If I shoot below bogey golf, I feel great. My friend whom I generally always play with would be livid if he shot an 85.

[I <3 Titleist]

I'm a higher handicap and I'm not a loser. I feel the pace of play is often affected by lost balls, re tees, and 3-5 strokes it takes most new players to get to the hole.

Truthfully, if I was a single digit handicap, I wouldn't be pouting about the pace of play at a $20 dollar a round municipal golf course. Seems like a lot of times guys replace the fun of the game with the personal goals and requirements. Sometimes that needs to be balanced.

I've never seen a 100+ shooter bashing his driver head into the ground, cursing himself out, or up and quitting and walking back to the club house an emotional mess, though LOL

[deronsizemore]

In several threads I have read comments from low handicappers that make me question my value as a golfer. Comments that a high handicapper may be lying if he says they can hit a ball a long way. Comments that high handicappers should play short tees because they must be slowing the pace of play from regular tees. Or that a high handicapper should be working on their game to develop a lower index.

It's nothing that should make you question your worth as a golfer. It's just that studies have been done and shown that the average male golfer's drive is somewhere around 210 yards or so. So you can bet that when someone with a handicap of 20+ comes on the board and mentioned averaging 285 yards off the tee, they're probably lying. Most people have no clue how far of a drive 285 yards actually is. Sure, with the wind at their back and a lot of roll after the ball hits the high handicapper may have got one out there around 285, but that ONE time doesn't make it your "average." I think that's where a lot of the comments from lower handicappers comes from. Honestly, I've played long enough and know enough about the game to know when someone is lying. Just like the "how far do you hit your 6 iron" thread. You got "bogey" golfers on there claiming to hit their 6 iron 200 yards. That's awesome considering that's up there with Tiger and the longest hitters on tour. Just stuff like that. It very well could be though that the people claiming the numbers simply don't know any better. A lot of people measure their distances by course markers which are consistently wrong and not accurately represent how far you hit a ball. Pace of play is REALLY effected when you have someone playing from the wrong tee box and they proceed to top the ball 10 times on their way to the first green (seen it happen many times). Sure losing balls effects it too, but continuing to hit shot after shot 10 yards in front of you is a big problem. Not playing ready golf is too. I've seen golfers ride all over the place in a cart, watch their buddy hit and then drive to their ball and take forever to decide what club they want. It just shows inexperience (or stupidity?) that they don't go head and jump out of the cart, grab some clubs and walk to their ball and start figuring out what they want to do so when it's their turn, they're ready to play. I honestly couldn't care less what tees a person plays as long as they keep pace. If you've hit 10 times and are still 200 yards from the green on a 400 yard hole, pick up your ball. It's that simple. If you're happy shooting 100 when you play, then I'm happy for you, just please don't make me wait 20 minutes before I can tee off on every single hole.

[msd3075]

Yes.

No, you are not a loser. Everyone is a winner!!

[Lemay427]

Losers!!!!



Hahaha. Just kidding. In response to pace of play. I dont care how bad someone is. If it takes them 2 swings just to top it and hit it 50yards, so be it. Just be curtious and let the faster players play through. I appreciate that there are as many golfers as there is, good or bad. If it wasnt for the bad golfers there would be as many courses and new equipment to buy!!

[deronsizemore]

I've never seen a 100+ shooter bashing his driver head into the ground, cursing himself out, or up and quitting and walking back to the club house an emotional mess, though LOL

And if you see a "scratch" golfer [or better] doing that, he's likely not as good as he thinks. Majority of the good golfers I've played with are able to consistently play good because they do not lose their cool. Most people that claim to be God's gift to golf and but really are not, lose their cool quite often I've noticed.

[O.B. Right]

We are losers only in the sense that we lose golf matches.

I can't hit the ball far but my brother can hit over 250 (with roll) with his 4 wood (he doesn't own a driver or 3 wood). Trust me. .I'm not lying. Unfortunately, though, only about 1 out of 20 of his shots lands in bounds - and almost never in the fairway.

[I <3 Titleist]

And if you see a "scratch" golfer [or better] doing that, he's likely not as good as he thinks. Majority of the good golfers I've played with are able to consistently play good because they do not lose their cool. Most people that claim to be God's gift to golf and but really are not, lose their cool quite often I've noticed.

We're not necessarily referring to scratch players. I'm talking about the people who think that because they regularly shoot 40 per side, that if they end up with a 43, then it's the end of the world.

Most obnoxious and crude people I find on the course are usually the 9 that thinks he should be a 2. Like I said, it's often times going to be the low handicapper that feels entitled and often times loses their cool. Us high cappers can enjoy the hell out of 18 bogeys :)

[Doctorfro]

The only losers I see on the course are those who disrespect the game or the course or those around them on the course. I see alot of "golfers" who feel like they've paid their money and they'll do what they please. Those are the losers. The winners are those who enjoy the game no matter their game and respect the course and the others playing it.

And yes, ya gotta wonder about the driving distances. The science just doesn't back it up most of the time. I mean I have a good swing speed but I average somewhere between 255-275 off the tee. When conditions are in my favor (wind, dry fairways) I can go farther but it is what it is. And some days my swing is on and I average more. But I'm not buying most driving "tales".

[ddalet]

In several threads I have read comments from low handicappers that make me question my value as a golfer. Comments that a high handicapper may be lying if he says they can hit a ball a long way. Comments that high handicappers should play short tees because they must be slowing the pace of play from regular tees. Or that a high handicapper should be working on their game to develop a lower index.

Everyone who knows the rules and can maintain pace of play should have the right to play golf.

That said, the course is shared grounds. If you can't maintain pace of play you shouldn't be on the course. Too often, play is slowed down by hackers going all over the place on every shot and seeking out every ball. Courses are in dire straights these days and so they hesitate to remove or rush players on the course. This ruins the game for me. I have often played with guys who can't break 85... but they keep up, and as such I feel fine playing with them.

[deronsizemore]

We're not necessarily referring to scratch players. I'm talking about the people who think that because they regularly shoot 40 per side, that if they end up with a 43, then it's the end of the world.

Yeah, you're right about that. That happens a lot too. The guy who has broken 40 a couple times so now (and tells everyone he's a "single digit") and he thinks he should be doing it full time every time he plays and when he doesn't, the world seemingly comes to an end.

[O.B. Right]

I'm not buying most driving "tales".

I'm not sure how old you are (I'm mid 30's) but, believe me . . . .an early 20's male in good physical condition can swing a golf club totally wrong and get lucky and make pure contact and send the ball a friggin mile. Especially if they tend to hook the ball vs slice it (like my brother).

[sean_miller]

We are losers only in the sense that we lose golf matches.

Your brother sounds like a beginner

or a loser. If I hit 19 tee shots out of 20 out of bounds I'd use an iron off the tee and check to see if my 4 wood was broken. Unless you're using persimmon woods, a balata ball, and swinging out of your shoes every time, how do you get 95% of your balls so far off line that they're OB - not just in trouble? Are you counting balls into the lake, bush, or other unrecoverable hazard? I did played regularly with a guy once who was a great athlete at every sport but golf - he had a banana tee ball on every par 4 or 5. His clubs were ill fitted and he would not take one word of advice. He just kept aiming farther and farther left hoping his slice would stop or that he'd only go as far right as the next fairway at worst. I'd say he easily hit less than 25% of tee shots OB. BTW - I've hit many shots > 250 yards with my 2 iron due to both 1.) occasionally hitting it pure, 2.) bounce and roll (some times flukey, sometimes played on purpose), but even though the last 2-iron I hit was 252 yards, if someone asks my average 2-iron yardage I'd say it's closer to 225-230 yards. I have to factor in the 195 yard mis-hits too.

[I <3 Titleist]

I know a guy who couldn't break 90 if you paid him to, but he's 6' 2" tall, has ape hanger arms, hits a Taylormade Burner easily 275-285 on average with a very predictable fade. We have a Golf Logix in the group and a Nikon laser range finder so often times we get a pretty accurate read on the ball.

Then he hits his 9 iron fat and lands on the edge of the green. Then he duffs a chip and rolls it 20 ft past the hole. After that he'll 3 putt.

So yah, sometimes they're not all lying. This guys swing is ugly as sin, but he murders the ball from the tee.

[deronsizemore]

I'm not sure how old you are (I'm mid 30's) but, believe me . . . .an early 20's male in good physical condition can swing a golf club totally wrong and get lucky and make pure contact and send the ball a friggin mile. Especially if they tend to hook the ball vs slice it (like my brother).

You're right. Anyone can swing out of their shoes and get lucky and catch one sending it straight and 280 yards out. BUT I'm willing to bet that no bogey golfer "averages" that. That's the thing when all the thread pop up about distance, we're talking your "average" NOT "how far can you hit it if you swing really hard and catch it perfectly?" Most bogey golfers that "average" 300 yards, fail to mention the 3 out of 10 that they topped down to the forward tees. They only remember their best ever drive and that becomes their "average."

[sean_miller]

The only losers I see on the course are those who disrespect the game or the course or those around them on the course. I see alot of "golfers" who feel like they've paid their money and they'll do what they please. Those are the losers. The winners are those who enjoy the game no matter their game and respect the course and the others playing it.

That sounds about right - if I took a smooth full swing with driver or 3 wood on every hole it's

possbly above that range, but I hit a lot of long irons and hybrids off the tee. I also play in the wind quite a bit and there is no way someone is hitting > 250 into a strong headwind unless they're bouncing it along the cart path.

[alcorn]

wow.. you put too much stock in what other people say on here. Its the internet, there are plenty of people who are just out there to screw with you. My main question is why do you care what these other people think of you on the golf course. PLAY FOR YOURSELF!!

Oh and the reason that the people who are lower handicappers sometimes criticize people who play a handicap of 20+ and think thats just great is that it doesn't matter if you can hit the ball 300 yards if ya can't keep it straight, or if you can't put, or if that is the only thing goin for you. So take it for what its worth and go cry if you don't the input.