Teen Clubs?

[socalsharky]

We held off as long as we could, but it looks like we'll be getting my son some new clubs for Christmas. Any additional thoughts from the forum?

I am leaning towards going with a local clubfitter that sells KZG clubs. He made my son a driver last summer that worked pretty well. However, I know that a full set of irons and a hybrid or two will be pretty pricey, so I am looking for other options.

TIA

[limoric]

My son started when he was 13 (same hight as the average 12 yr old). I pulled the shafts (Dynamic Gold regular) from a fairly new set of Adams Idea A1 Pros (very nice set that graduates from muscle back short irons to hollow back mid to long irons). I stepped the shafts back (so 4 iron shaft into the 6 iron and so on) and cut the shafts down 1/2 inch. The shafts played a bit stiffer than womans. I re-gripped with a junior/womans grip. The set was perfect for him and he loved them for 2 years. He started playing the clubs choking down a little and adjusted his grip as he grew. He's 15 now and I just put him into my old CG2's (project X 5.0, cut down 1/4 inch)...

I still have the clubs and they are in really great shap...let me know if you're interested...(asuming you don't go for new)

If you go for new, I would pick up a set at rock bottom golf and do what I did. They have the Nickent 3DX irons on for $150 (regular $500 when they came out), pull the shafts out, step them back twice and cut them down 1/2 inch under standard (remember, you'll be taking about an inch off because you're stepping back). You can buy grips on ebay for $2 each. All total with some labor cost (if you don't do it yourself), $200-$225.

[limoric]

Just noticed they still have these clubs for sale. http://www.rockbottomgolf.com/cosmo-...et-steel.html# $49

The clubs look like a Ping i5/i10/i15 knockoff and are made of 17-4 SS. The Rifle Precision Steel shaft alone are worth near $200 retail. Cosmo golf was a components company that used to supply Golf Town (same as Golf Galaxy) and a lot of Pro shops with full sets and components. My first set 9 years ago was as set of Precision II's with Dynamic Gold shafts, they were great clubs. Cosmo Golf made a quality product. They are no longer in business, folded about 2 years ago...

Step these shafts back, they would be the perfect set for your son, mid-size head with minimal offset...

[wrx_junki]

Women's club is a very good option. I think Adams has a 7 piece and a 14 piece set for women. Not sure how old your kid is but they have petite clubs for women so that's an option if your kid is on the shorter side.

[socalsharky]

I stepped the shafts back (so 4 iron shaft into the 6 iron and so on) and cut the shafts down 1/2 inch.

Or do you mean the 6-iron shaft went into the new 4 iron? You want to go shorter, right? Sorry, but I have not heard of stepping back. Does this result in a different net stiffness or length than simply cutting each club down by 1"? And then since you moved shafts from one head to another, do you need to buy two new shafts?

What was the net decrease in length from a standard men's set?

Women's club is a very good option. I think Adams has a 7 piece and a 14 piece set for women. Not sure how old your kid is but they have petite clubs for women so that's an option if your kid is on the shorter side.

He is about 4'11", but I think he is just now entering a growth spurt. What about the Nike VR cavity back women's set?

Nike Womens VR cavity back at TGW I can get them at another web site for $299. I could cut them down a 1/2" or so, and I think the length would be perfect. Then I would just need a hybrid or two. The Nike VR full cavity above comes with a graphite shaft. Is there anything different about cutting down a graphite shaft? I would think that the graphite shaft would be better for a junior, since I'm trying to save weight wherever I can. I notice that most graphite shafts are 30-40 grams lighter than steel.

[limoric]

Or do you mean the 6-iron shaft went into the new 4 iron? You want to go shorter, right? Sorry, but I have not heard of stepping back. Does this result in a different net stiffness or length than simply cutting each club down by 1"? And then since you moved shafts from one head to another, do you need to buy two new shafts?

No, you want to step them back, 4 iron to 6 iron, this will reduce the flex (your not doing it to adjust weight). Once they are stepped back, you cut them 1/2 inch below standard mens length. (because you are stepping them back, they will already be longer, so that's what I meant by cutting them down an inch, just do some measuring before (some five irons jump 1/2 inch whereas the 6 through PW progress by 1/4 inch). By stepping back 2 clubs, you are going to reduce the flex by about 2/3rd's of a flex point, so slightly stiffer than womans. By cutting them down 1/2 inch, you will also reduce the swing weight, so they will feel lighter, but they will not have the whippy characteristics of a womans graphite shaft; the clubs will play more accurate. All that you are doing by stepping back and cutting down is producing more flex, a bit less swing weight and a length that will fit your son. He will most likely have to choke down 1/2 inch to an inch, but this is perfect, he'll have a set he can grow into. Just use some tape to measure the lie angle; this will determine where he grips, then remeasure as he grows.

By putting my son into a steel shaft which was a bit more stiff than womans graphite and a bit heavier, he was able to produce better tempo as he learned the proper swing. 3 years later he's gone from driving the ball 150 yard to 225-250 (he's now 15); he hits a wedge 100 yards and sticks the green. Buy the precision II's for $49, any of the Canadians on the board who have been around for a while can tell you they make a very quality product, like I said, the shafts alone are $200 retail. 17-4 steel is 17-4 steel, many of the top manufactures still use it. Cosmo golf had been around 20 plus years, their iron head will be very well balanced. This particular set is just like the Ping i5's but the longer irons progress into more of a G5 profile (wider sole), mid to short irons will suit any intermediate player...

[limoric]

forgot to mention...as for the missing clubs, you"ll be stepping back 2 so his set will stop at 5 iron. He really doesn't need the 4 or 3, but you could buy him a hybrid to fill the gap. Just buy a mens hybrid with senior shaft and cut down. I did this for my son with an old Taylormade dual 4 hybrid (regular shaft); within a year he was hitting high 170-180 yard shots with it. Buy the Precision's, add a hybrid and a cleveland Junior SW and he'll have a great set, all for under 200 bucks...

The Victory Reds are nice too, but looks like they are $399, by the time you add a Hybrid, you're in for $350-$400. The Precision's are made with the same 17-4 steel and would probably cost $150 after you have them professionally altered, less if you can save the grips. Because he'll choke down a little, the grips will actually play smaller (as they taper).

[wrx_junki]

It's going to be tough if he's going through a growth spurt. If he does get a women's set, I think he should grip down as he grows into them instead of cutting them down.

[limoric]

It's going to be tough if he's going through a growth spurt. If he does get a women's set, I think he should grip down as he grows into them instead of cutting them down.

Yes, do not cut down the womans set, the swing weight will be so off that he'll not be able to learn proper tempo. If he does get bigger and stronger at age 13, he'll likely swing as fast or faster than an amateur woman anyway. Stepping back a steel set gives you more options as he grows...

[socalsharky]

limoric--thanks for your detailed responses. I guess I know less than I thought I did about the way clubs are built. I always assumed that all of the shafts in a set of irons were the same, and that the tops were cut off to get the shorter shafts for the shorter irons. You are saying that by taking the regular stiffness shaft from a 4 iron, putting it into a 6 iron and then cutting it down by 1", you have a club that is now somewhere between R and L in stiffness? But taking the original 6 iron shaft and cutting it to the same length (say cutting off 1/2") it would be stiffer than the original shaft.

You mention that the stepping back process reduces the flex. If I buy a set of R stiffness clubs, I need to increase the flex (decrease stiffness) to get them close to L stiffness.

How hard is it to pull shafts out of the heads?

What about grips? If I can't save the grips, should I go with the Golf Pride Velvet junior or undersize? You mention $2 grips on ebay. What would you recommend?

Thanks again for your help.

[limoric]

limoric--thanks for your detailed responses. I guess I know less than I thought I did about the way clubs are built. I always assumed that all of the shafts in a set of irons were the same, and that the tops were cut off to get the shorter shafts for the shorter irons. You are saying that by taking the regular stiffness shaft from a 4 iron, putting it into a 6 iron and then cutting it down by 1", you have a club that is now somewhere between R and L in stiffness? But taking the original 6 iron shaft and cutting it to the same length (say cutting off 1/2") it would be stiffer than the original shaft.

You got it now. You need the proper tools to pull the heads off, It's not too difficult. You can buy a heat gun for $25 and a shaft puller off Ebay for for under $100. These 2 tools are essential if you are going to save the shaft; the tips can bend very easily under high heat, so if you just heat up and twist off, you will ruin the shafts. You may be better off just paying a driving range pro to do it for you. I have the tools because I like to tinker (and I have 4 kids). My driving range pro re-shafts for $5-$7 per club and and re-grips for $0.50.

If you do buy the tools and do it yourself, there are some great tutorials at golf smith. I buy a lot of my components from GolfWorks, which is actually where I bought the grips you asked about. I bought my son these... http://www.golfworks.com/product.asp...HMS_A_cn_E_694 . They're really easy on the hands, but still firm. You can cut steel shafts with a miter saw no problem, just tape the shaft up first. Re-griping is also very easy, you'll need a vice and shaft protector. Golf smith also has tutorials for this too. The precision clubs will be great to work with as they require no ferrule.

[limoric]

Another option would be to buy the heads from golfworks or golfsmith, you can get a good intermediate head (don't do the junior thing), for $10-$15 a head. Buy some pulled shafts off ebay for $25-$50 and some grips. Cost at the end of the day will be the same, but the work will be easier and you can do it all yourself (if you're interested in the project)

Start a thread asking the guys what they think would be nice "clean" intermediate head from Maltby or the golfsmith lines and go from there. The respective website also have some pretty good detail as well. Go for less offset, your son does not need it as he's not developed any flaws yet.

As for shafts, you can step back any regular flex shaft. Buy a standard weight though, because you will be shortening them, you will be reducing the swing weight anyway...

Of course the easiest thing to do would be to buy the irons I mentioned, drop them off with the driving range pro and pick them back up in a week

[socalsharky]

You mention that the stepping back process reduces the flex. If I buy a set of R stiffness clubs, I need to increase the flex (decrease stiffness) to get them close to L stiffness.

I still don't quite get this part.

Thanks.

[limoric]

I still don't quite get this part.

Think of it this way. An iron set gets longer from PW to 3 iron. The length is not adjusted from the butt end, the shafts are tipped to match the weight of the head, your PW being the heaviest. The butt end is trimmed too, but it has little effect on shaft stiffness. When you pull a 3 iron shaft and put it in a 5 iron, you not only lengthen the area of the shaft that bends, the club head is also heavier, so the combination of both produces more flex. Stepping refers to the steps in the shaft, the more steps the more flexible, a 3 iron has more steps than a 5 iron, but the head is lighter, so the flex remains consistent. Typically, 3 steps equals a full flex, so if you soft step a dynamic gold "stiff" 3 times, you'll have a regular shaft. Many club fitters will buy blank shafts, they are all the same size, tipping the shaft will determine the flex, they can create any flex they want.

I could get more specific and discuss frequency and such, but it is not important. Soft stepping a shaft produces greater flexibility, it can also change the kick point, the spot the shaft bends the most, this can have an effect on ball flight (lower kick point higher flight and vice versa). This is not really important for what you plan to do, bottom line, soft stepping a regular shaft for your son will produce a slightly more flexible shaft the produces higher ball flight. Because the shaft will be a bit shorter, the club head will feel lighter (think about swinging a ball and chain, the longer the chain, the heavier the ball will feel) Hope this helps...

[hartattack52]

I am 15 and have been using mens clubs for awhile, but i am also 6 1. My brother is 13 and only about 5 4 and he uses the x 20s. they are a little long, but he hits them well and will grow into them nicely. Your son could always just choke up on the club a little for now.

[limoric]

I am 15 and have been using mens clubs for awhile, but i am also 6 1. My brother is 13 and only about 5 4 and he uses the x 20s. they are a little long, but he hits them well and will grow into them nicely. Your son could always just choke up on the club a little for now.

4'11" is too short for standard clubs...even choking down.

[limoric]

BTW...when I said cut down 1/2 inch, this was just a general guidline, attached is a chart that can help you measure your son. You can allow some length for him to grow into, but he will need to choke up a little...no more than an inch.

http://www.golfspyder.com/golf-club-length.html

[socalsharky]

I just came across two Nike sets that seem to be aimed at teens:

Nike Ignite Junior

Nike Slingshot 4D Junior

Any thoughts on these?