Can someone PLEASE explain the in-to-out swing to me? S&T-ish question...

[PS90]

Hey Everyone,

I am pretty much a rank beginner, especially compared to most of you experts on here, and I (like most noobs) have a terrible problem with the slice.

Background: I have started attempting the S&T; method, which I like and it seems to really have improved my contact. I do understand the point of tangency, and how it relates to an in-to-out swing. This technique has helped straighten out my slice into a small fade with my irons - which I can handle.

The Question: How does this relate to a driver??? In the S&T; DVD, Mike demonstrates with a driver - and he is demonstrating that the shaft of the driver should be PARALLEL with the Target Line , when the shaft is parallel to the ground on the downswing.

The Problem: Maybe it's just me, but isn't the shaft too long to do that? I tried for hours yesterday at the range, and could never get the shaft parallel to the target line - the club head was always pointing left of the target line (I'm a lefty). I had to lean WAY back when sliding my hips forward to get the shaft close to parallel, but that was very exaggerated, and resulted in a poor shot. And, it only resulted in a very slight draw with everything exaggerated.

So, my basic conundrum - I don't really understand how to create an in-to-out swing with a driver. Between the long shaft and the ball placement being forward, I just don't get it. It's always out-to-in by the time contact occurs, and I always get some degree of slice.

Any tips?

Should I just give up and try Nintendo Wii Golf instead?

[DavidFehertysBike]

Throwing your arms out to the ball from the top is usually a big cause of a slice. It could also be bad alighnment, so its not a simple awnser. But generally, the better you can keep your back turned away from the ball in the downswing while your arms move downward, the less over the top you will be. I know its diffcult thing to grasp with a driver because it is so long, but with time it comes more natural.

[iacas]

The Question: How does this relate to a driver??? In the S&T; DVD, Mike demonstrates with a driver - and he is demonstrating that the shaft of the driver should be

I'm confused as to why the length of the shaft would have anything to do with it... Parallel is parallel.

Swing back slowly and down slowly. The hips push forward, the club comes down ON PLANE, and at that point in the swing, on plane is with the hands right in line with the clubface. As in "the right picture in this image": Shaft length's irrelevant to the question. Perhaps you have video to show us?

[PS90]

I'm confused as to why the length of the shaft would have anything to do with it... Parallel is parallel.

Thanks for the replies, DavidFehertysBike, and iacas.

iacas, you are right, I need to desperately get a video for better citisizm. About the parallel is parallel comment - I agree, getting the shaft to parallel, like your picture on the right, is not the problem. MY problem, at least, is - once the shaft is in that position - the continuance of the swing. No matter how I leaned back, or stood up on the follow-through, or tried to clear the shaft - if the shaft was coming at the angle needed to make it parallel to the target line, there was nothing I could do to get the clubhead through the swing, it would always crash into the ground a foot or two behing the ball. In other words, only by taking a flatter(more horizontal) swing plane, with the clubhead pointed left, would I be able to make good contact. This, however, also seems to lend itself to more of an out-to-in swing. What am I doing wrong? Thanks again for any help. (I didn't have this driver fitted for length, but I have been measured for height and wrist-to-ground length before, and was told I needed between a -.25" and standard length shaft. This driver is a standard-length shaft)

[DavidFehertysBike]

No matter how I leaned back, or stood up on the follow-through, or tried to clear the shaft - if the shaft was coming at the angle needed to make it parallel to the target line, there was nothing I could do to get the clubhead through the swing, it would always crash into the ground a foot or two behing the ball.

That seems to me like a weight thing. When golfers stub the club into the ground they are usually reverse pivoting and swinging off the back leg.

[iacas]

That seems to me like a weight thing. When golfers stub the club into the ground they are usually reverse pivoting and swinging off the back leg.

Yeah, that or you're not extending at that point. You might just be staying "in flexion." You should feel the need to stand up and extend everything at that point - your arms, your legs, your back, etc. Just as you side tilt left on the backswing, you'll naturally side tilt right coming into impact, but you might want to try thinking about extending. Push the hips forward and extend the left leg, left side of your tummy, etc.

[PS90]

Thanks again for the thoughtful input, guys. Everything you both are saying makes perfect sense, but I thought I was doing all that yesterday. Maybe it's just my perception of what I'm doing is wrong...

I will try to get a video up in the next few days for your expert help. I appreciate this forum for all it's resources.

Thanks again, guys.