Embedded Ball in Hazard

[jwolf02]

My apologies if this has been asked before, but I did a search and didn't find anything specifically regarding this situation.

Played earlier this week with a buddy and ran into a rules dilemma that goes like this:

Down the right side of the 6th hole runs a fairly shallow stream. At one point the stream forks around a small "island" covered in long grass, about 2 yards wide, 3-4 yards long... enough to take a comfortable stance if you needed to. The stream is not marked as a lateral hazard.

My buddy pushes a ball right that ends up embedded in the island, which is a little muddy. We had a little rules argument about how to play the embedded ball; he felt he was entitled to a free drop and I thought that was only for closely mown areas. He referred to rule 25-1 b, "If the ball lies through the green, the player must lift the ball and drop it, without penalty, within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief." I referred to 25-2, "A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the coursethrough the green. "Closely mown area" means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less." We've agreed I was correct, which I will continue to remind him of for the rest of our golfing lives.

So my question is this - since it wasn't a closely mown area, how do you play the next shot? Do you treat the island as part of the hazard, as if the ball was in the water, and then drop the ball within two clubs of the spot it crossed into the hazard? On the line of the shot? Do you drop it within a club length of where it was embedded on the island? Thanks in advance.

[Zeph]

Since it is not a hazard, you can drop the ball using rule 28. If the stream is not marked, it is not a hazard and the hazard rules does not apply.

Source: Rule 28
If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must,
under penalty of one stroke :

a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or

c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.

When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.

Only way he could take relief in this situation would be if the area he was in was deemed abnormal ground condition.

[iacas]

Since it is not a hazard, you can drop the ball using rule 28. If the stream is not marked, it is not a hazard and the hazard rules does not apply.

Hazard rules apply. Just because the course doesn't mark an obvious water hazard doesn't mean it isn't a lateral water hazard.

http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_a...dx=118&Rule;=33

[Zeph]

I thought I'd seen a decision on that, but couldn't find it. It's a lot of decisions to keep track of now. One thing is reading the rules, another is understanding them and knowing the decisions.

[Fatphil]

Here's another one that I'm too lazy to look up...At doral there are islands of grass inside the bunkers...can you ground the club? if u take a practice swing and clip the grass is that a penalty? Guess the same thing applies if you are on an island inside a stream.

[Fourputt]

Here's another one that I'm too lazy to look up...At doral there are islands of grass inside the bunkers...can you ground the club? if u take a practice swing and clip the grass is that a penalty? Guess the same thing applies if you are on an island inside a stream.

If the ball is on the grass it is not in the bunker, even if the grass island is in the bunker. See the Definition of

bunker .

Bunker A "bunker" is a hazard consisting of a prepared area of ground, often a hollow, from which turf or soil has been removed and replaced with sand or the like. Grass-covered ground bordering or within a bunker, including a stacked turf face (whether grass-covered or earthen), is not part of the bunker. A wall or lip of the bunker not covered with grass is part of the bunker. The margin of a bunker extends vertically downwards, but not upwards. A ball is in a bunker when it lies in or any part of it touches the bunker.

[jwolf02]

Hazard rules apply. Just because the course doesn't mark an obvious water hazard doesn't mean it isn't a lateral water hazard.

So in that case, does the "island" inside of the stream also count as part of that unmarked hazard? If you

wanted to play from the island, could you? There's no bridge to get there, just a solid 4-5 foot leap.

[Fatphil]

So in that case, does the "island" inside of the stream also count as part of that unmarked hazard? If you

Has to or else the 17th green at Sawgrass would be a hazard and for that matter a green surrounded by bunkers would be a hazard...logical if you think about it.

[Fourputt]

So in that case, does the "island" inside of the stream also count as part of that unmarked hazard? If you

You could certainly play from the island, that is always an option unless the hazard is marked as environmentally sensitive. The real question is whether the player was entitled to relief from the lie, and that question can't really be answered without knowing the status of the hazard. My gut feeling is that the island should be ruled as being within the hazard, thus part of the hazard, so no relief. I have never played a course where such a hazard is in play but not marked. The rules say that in the case of an unmarked hazard you should use the natural boundaries as the hazard margin. Since the stream runs on both sides of the island, that puts the island completely within the margins of the hazard. Either play the ball as it lies or take relief under Rule 26-1. No relief for the embedded ball.

Has to or else the 17th green at Sawgrass would be a hazard and for that matter a green surrounded by bunkers would be a hazard...logical if you think about it.

No... your thinking is faulty. First, Sawgrass is properly marked, so there is no confusion. The outer margin of the lake is marked and the margin around the island green is marked. It is to avoid issues like this that a course should always at least have stakes to define the boundaries of all hazards.

A bunker does not need to be marked. The ball is only in a bunker if it lies in or touches the bunker. That means it has to be touching the sand. If it lies on the green or even on the apron, then it isn't touching the sand. By the definitions of both putting green and bunker, the putting green cannot be part of a bunker.