Weakened Lofts & Less Offset to help hit it farther and straighter?

[MikeLowry5]

Club	Speed	Attack Angle	Dynamic Loft	Ball Speed	Smash	Spin	Carry	Side Spin (yds)	Landing Angle
Tour Burner 105S	92.5	-8.4	14.3	127.4	1.38	5544	180.5	4.5 Left	35.3
Epon 6.5 PX	91	-7.7	14.7	128.4	1.41	5097	187.3	5 Left	37.2
Epon 6.0 PX	92.1	-7.4	16.3	128	1.39	5411	186.5	2.2 Right	39.5
MP53 6.5 Rifle	92	-7.4	16.6	126.4	1.37	5473	183.6	4.4 Right	40.1
MP53 KBS X	89	-7.5	16.6	125.4	1.4	5658	180.1	5.9 Right	38.8

I had a shaft fitting last night at Midwest Golf Lab here in St. Louis and contrary to my first experience with them, this was great.  John worked with me for about 2 hours and even offered to do the fitting for free as there were some communication errors the first time I came in.

Here are some numbers from the fitting showing me with my stock Tour Burner irons and a few others with PX 6.5, PX 6.0, Rifle 6.5, KBS Stiff, KBS X.

One thing John mentioned is that he would like to bend my clubs 2 degrees weaker (PW from 46 to 48) and this would give me more distance.  The idea was I de-loft the club too much which does not hit the ball high enough to get the optimal distance.  Additionally he told me that if I switched irons I should look for something with less offset and it would help me to keep from blocking the ball.  The reason being, I hold off my finish for a long time and the offset would just aid in blocking the ball.

Anyone disagree with that?

[max power]

Not buying it.  You may prefer weaker lofts, but I don't think it's because de-lofting is costing you distance.  And I don't buy that the tiny measurable difference between offset and less offset is causing you to block your shots.

[enis750]

nope...John is on crack dude

agreed from what max said above

think about this

when you properly lag the club and hit down on the ball, you are delofting the club

proper lag creates more spin and more distance...not less

flipping causes a loss of distance and inconsistency

less offset has nothing to do with you blocking the ball - that is all in your set up and swing

holding your finish longer, well...you have already made contact with the ball...hold it as long as you want, but your mistake has already been made

bending your irons weaker (all of them) will also wreak havoc on the bounce on your irons

you will be creating MORE bounce on every iron.....the last thing you need is more bounce on a 5 or 6iron

if your itchy to buy new irons or shafts then get at er

but the issues your dealing with are swing related....not iron related

based on whats in your bag and the flexes you were trying, it looks like your going for a much stiffer shaft as well???? (Rifle & PJX 6.5's?)

not sure what club you were hitting, but it i had to guess it looks like a 5 or 6i??

[MikeLowry5]

Not looking for anything stiffer, it's what he put in my hand.  I like hitting heavier clubs (from what I've tested) as they are easier to swing.  With the lighter clubs I tend to swing out of control too much.

I was hitting a 6 iron.

The idea of hitting the ball higher does make sense to add distance however the offset idea confused me.  I agree there are optimal shot heights/launch angles/landing angles.  If you can see my angle of attack, it is too steep which would aid in de-lofting the club.  His theory was, yes I need to shallow out the swing but, since I've always been a lower ball hitter I may never get to optimal launch angles, thus, weakening the lofts would help launch it higher and closer to the optimal number.  The offset thing still has me confused.

I think his thoughts were, yes, I have a swing issue to iron out however, these changes would provide an immediate improvement.

I agree that it all sounds a bit contrary to what you would think however, they are a top rated clubfitter in this years Golf Digest's HOT LIST issue.

[TaylorMadeTaylor]

Weakening the lofts is not going to lead to more distance. It will more or less make your 5 iron go just as far and just a high as your 6-iron, not a magically higher and longer 5-iron.

Do you hit your 6-iron further or as far as your 5-iron? Very unlikely, yet that is the case needed for this whole "weakening of the lofts" thing to work.

[max power]

Hot List doesn't equal instant credibility.  He could be a great guy, but these changes won't yield any immediate improvement-and they certainly won't add distance.

Originally Posted by MikeLowry5

Not looking for anything stiffer, it's what he put in my hand.  I like hitting heavier clubs (from what I've tested) as they are easier to swing.  With the lighter clubs I tend to swing out of control too much.

I was hitting a 6 iron.

The idea of hitting the ball higher does make sense to add distance however the offset idea confused me.  I agree there are optimal shot heights/launch angles/landing angles.  If you can see my angle of attack, it is too steep which would aid in de-lofting the club.  His theory was, yes I need to shallow out the swing but, since I've always been a lower ball hitter I may never get to optimal launch angles, thus, weakening the lofts would help launch it higher and closer to the optimal number.  The offset thing still has me confused.

I think his thoughts were, yes, I have a swing issue to iron out however, these changes would provide an immediate improvement.

I agree that it all sounds a bit contrary to what you would think however, they are a top rated clubfitter in this years Golf Digest's HOT LIST issue.

[TourSpoon]

My .02.

I weakened my lofts 1 degree (6-P) to start my PW at 48 and strengthened the 3-4 iron 1 degree to spread out my distances as the 4-5-6 were set at 3 degrees apart (kept the 3-4 at 3 degrees.  The reason I did this was to cover more distance and it was based on my experience of playing golf for the last 20 or so years at 5-8 index. So does weakening give you more distance?  Well in the regards to covering more distance it does, but what he is talking about would make more sense with someone who has a really slow swing speed who would be switching from an 8 degree driver to a 12.  If he is bending everything weak just so you can hit your mid-long irons then you need to fix your swing.

I went with less offset than previous clubs because I don't need it and I didn't like looking at it.  More offset gives a measure of forgiveness for people that are a hair late squaring the club and is usually progressive as you move up the irons.  What this guy is saying doesn't make a lot of sense to me and before you go and get all measured up and fitted, I would invest some time finding out why you hit the ball so low.

My suggestions that you can take any way you want:

Buy the book The Impact Zone and get a good understanding of swing dynamics (you only need the first 5 or 6 chapters).

Start working with a pro to work on ball striking with the clubs you have.

Go and buy some new clubs but ask your pro what he would suggest after working with you.

For me, it is pretty simple as I went with DG S300s.  It is a familiar shaft that is proven, affordable and they work for me. I am just noticing that they are not the "It" shaft at the moment, but you will find more than your fair share of them in many players bags from top amateurs to to top PGA Tour Pros and everywhere in between.

Good luck and keep us posted.  Just don't rush into something if it doesn't seem right and feel free to get a second opinion from a competitor or local pro.

[leo3]

Modifying your clubs to mask a swing fault insures that fault will never be fixed.

[enis750]

@Mikelowry5 - lots of great advice in here bro