Dropping on a cart path

[Thats Good]

Need a little help in understand how to proceed. reading several previous posts... some say you drop on a cart path and then take the appropriate relief from the obstruction. I beleive one does not drop on a man made obstruction and take secondary releif. So help me out here -- can anyone find the rule that states a player crops on a cart path.

Additionally -- the reason this came up is this. Red hazard on the left of a cart path, and on the right a large casual water area due to heavy rains. my ball was in casual water - closest releif was the cart path. If I take proper releif I drop on the cart path, but then the second releif drop from the obstruction cart path puts me back in casual water. How do you get out of that if you have to drop on the cart path?

thanks

[MiniBlueDragon]

Drop 'on' a cart path? Not hear that one before I have to say...

I'd take a read of http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-24/

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Thats Good

Need a little help in understand how to proceed. reading several previous posts... some say you drop on a cart path and then take the appropriate relief from the obstruction. I beleive one does not drop on a man made obstruction and take secondary releif. So help me out here -- can anyone find the rule that states a player crops on a cart path.

Additionally -- the reason this came up is this. Red hazard on the left of a cart path, and on the right a large casual water area due to heavy rains. my ball was in casual water - closest releif was the cart path. If I take proper releif I drop on the cart path, but then the second releif drop from the obstruction cart path puts me back in casual water. How do you get out of that if you have to drop on the cart path?

thanks

You may drop on a cartpath providing it is not one from which you are taking relief.

In the case you raise (casual water) the rule (25b) has no prohibition. It says:

The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green . When the ball is dropped within one club-length of the nearest point of relief , the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the condition and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green .

This applies equally to relief from an different obstruction or GUR etc.

In the situation where you are bouncing from one problem to another and back again Decision 1-4/8 gives the answer

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-01/#1-4/8

However, if finish on the cart path with a good lie, you may always play it from there

[Thats Good]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

You may drop on a cartpath providing it is not one from which you are taking relief.

In the case you raise (casual water) the rule (25b) has no prohibition. It says:

The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When the ball is dropped within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the condition and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.

This applies equally to relief from an different obstruction or GUR etc.

In the situation where you are bouncing from one problem to another and back again Decision 1-4/8 gives the answer

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-01/#1-4/8

However, if finish on the cart path with a good lie, you may always play it from there

Yes I undwerstand I "may" drop on a cart path -- my question is does one "have to" drop on a cart path if it is the near point of releif.  Seems odd to drop on an obstruction is the reason I ask.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Thats Good

Yes I undwerstand I "may" drop on a cart path -- my question is does one "have to" drop on a cart path if it is the near point of releif.  Seems odd to drop on an obstruction is the reason I ask.

If the npr plus 1cl puts you on another cart path, that is where you must drop.

I must stress that the drop is not limited to the npr itself. You have an arc of one clublength not nearer the hole in which to drop and the ball may run a further 2cl from where the drop hit the course not nearer the hole.

If it finishes on another cart path, that is a new situation and you may take relief from that obstruction.

[zeg]

What they said. Plus, even if it's obvious that the ball is going to roll more than two club lengths away (say, because you're on a sloped path), you still have to go through the exercise. This is because it's possible you'd get an unexpected bounce and because you have to place it at the point it hits the ground after your second attempt.

[Thats Good]

Thanks again and all good info.

The problem I have with my situation of Casual water near the cart path is this:

The rule book states you must take "Full relief" -- standing on a cart path using the club one would use to determine NPR is not taking Full Relief is it?  (Also as a humorous side note I do not have a club in my bag that I would use to hit that dropped ball off the cart path )

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Thats Good

The problem I have with my situation of Casual water near the cart path is this:

The rule book states you must take "Full relief" -- standing on a cart path using the club one would use to determine NPR is not taking Full Relief is it?

'Full relief' means from the specific problem only. So you are only concerned with the CW in the first instance. Ignore the path until you have dropped from the CW. The path is a new and independent problem

[Thats Good]

This is good to know -- so this would then also apply if the NPR is next to a free drop planting area or ground under repair.  one would take his stance on the plants or bushes or in the GUR drop inside the white lines.   SURe hope if this happens - the gounds keeper does not see me standing on his nice Roddy's and dropping a ball on his gladdiolas.

this seems so wierd but I can see why.

Thanks

[Rulesman]

You don't always have to go through the physical process. You may estimate BUT if challenged you must be able to demonstrate the where your ball finished is legitimate according to the recommended procedure. It would be sensible not to push the limits.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

You don't always have to go through the physical process. You may estimate BUT if challenged you must be able to demonstrate the where your ball finished is legitimate according to the recommended procedure. It would be sensible not to push the limits.

I think it's a good idea at least to mark the position of the ball before lifting it, just in case there's a question or you get distracted before finishing the drop. If something funny happens, you can at least check, and to me this seems to be a fair compromise. Unless there's some strange situation, I usually just estimate my club lengths conservatively.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by zeg

I think it's a good idea at least to mark the position of the ball before lifting it, just in case there's a question or you get distracted before finishing the drop. If something funny happens, you can at least check, and to me this seems to be a fair compromise. Unless there's some strange situation, I usually just estimate my club lengths conservatively.

I agree but in fact you really shouldn't lift you ball until you have found what the likely result of a drop might be. You may find that it will end up worse than you start. As soon as you lift the ball you are committed to taking relief. If you put it back it will cost a 1 stroke penalty.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

I agree but in fact you really shouldn't lift you ball until you have found what the likely result of a drop might be. You may find that it will end up worse than you start. As soon as you lift the ball you are committed to taking relief. If you put it back it will cost a 1 stroke penalty.

Of course, but that's not the purpose of marking (at least, not my purpose). E.g., you need to be able to determine whether a ball rolled nearer to the hole (even in the case that you're certain you dropped within the appropriate number of club lengths).

[Rulesman]

Indeed, I take your point but why not just leave the ball there until you are actually going to drop it?

Whenever there is an an incident on course, the first thing we are told to say to the player, after we ask if we can help, is to tell him not to move his ball until the problem is resolved. It can save a lot of pain later.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Indeed, I take your point but why not just leave the ball there until you are actually going to drop it?

Whenever there is an an incident on course, the first thing we are told to say to the player, after we ask if we can help, is to tell him not to move his ball until the problem is resolved. It can save a lot of pain later.

You've got to pick it up before you can drop it, and you may need to know where it was after you've dropped it. That's why I say mark it.

Actually, I tend to mark it (but not pick it up) with a tee as soon as I realize I'm likely to think hard about lifting and dropping.

[Rulesman]

Fair points