Edel Golf PGA Show Video and Pics!

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by iacas

They have blade models, too.

And what will you do when Mizuno tells you "uhhh, we don't have the capability to build your irons with as much bounce as you need, sorry"?

I guess I'll have to muddle through with whatever bounce they have. Aside from my wedges, bounce doesn't enter into my thinking.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I guess I'll have to muddle through with whatever bounce they have. Aside from my wedges, bounce doesn't enter into my thinking.

And perhaps it shouldn't, but the Edel folks would tell you that it does quite a bit.

I know that bounce matters in irons as well as wedges. One of the changes Titleist made to the AP2 was to change the bounce of the 7-iron one degree. Bounce matters in irons too.

But again it's fine if you don't care. Doesn't mean other people won't, or that you're not giving some level of performance by choosing not to care.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by iacas

And perhaps it shouldn't, but the Edel folks would tell you that it does quite a bit.

I know that bounce matters in irons as well as wedges. One of the changes Titleist made to the AP2 was to change the bounce of the 7-iron one degree. Bounce matters in irons too.

But again it's fine if you don't care. Doesn't mean other people won't, or that you're not giving some level of performance by choosing not to care.

I know this is moving into the off-topic, and maybe a separate thread would be advantageous, but I have never heard that bounce plays any part in a standard shot where the leading edge, not the bounce, contacts the ground first. Interesting.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I know this is moving into the off-topic, and maybe a separate thread would be advantageous, but I have never heard that bounce plays any part in a standard shot where the leading edge, not the bounce, contacts the ground first. Interesting.

I'll put a bow on it if I can: bounce is responsible for the "feel" and for assisting the club head in exiting the ground smoothly. Hit otherwise identical irons, one with -5 degrees bounce and one with 10 degrees, and you'll easily be able to tell the difference.

If we need more, I'd recommend starting that new thread. I've just ordered up a set of irons with 11 degrees of bounce in my 9-iron, for example.

[mvmac]

Some updated information about the Edel irons from David Edel

Quote:

First off, these irons were only prototypes created to get feedback from our accounts and industry insiders. They were previewed at the demo day, and we did not have one negative comment, except for the potential price point. On the floor during the show the response was also very positive. This is the problem with showing something with new ideas, they get twisted as "Edel golf makes only dot faced wedges, like those ugly Alien Wedges". The reason we are working towards the iron market is that our bounce angles were running into PW's and irons that had huge changes in angle. My theory is if you need it in the wedges, then you need it through the whole set. It should be a progressive bounce based on you lean angles and your angle of attack.

We are taking over sized forgings and machining the pocket cavities and outside topline/toe radius's on the CNC milling machine to control various dimensions. We then hand grind the sole bounce and hand shape the entire iron to players desire. Each iron is basically a one of a kind CNC and hand made piece. They will be chromed and PVD for a either a Satin Chrome, Chrome, or midnight blue/black. They will be offered with traditional scoring lines or dot milled faces. We will offer a more traditional muscle back and a classic shaped cavity back with progressive offset. Sets can be ordered based on the number of clubs desired, like 6 through 60. Players will be fit for bounce angle, shaft flex/type, lofts, and gaps to name a few. Clients are welcomed to be involved in the grinding process to ensure that the club looks as good as it can be for personal likes.

The dot profiles are not new to the industry and to some maybe old fashion and non functional. Dots in my opinion were abandoned by the industry due to cost. For us to machine a dot pattern it takes a minimum of 30 minutes per club. That would be 4 hours on a conventional set of 8 irons. Why would the industry want to do that? In the old days a guy would hand hammer 100 dots per iron, that is time and money. Grooves are a far more simple solution. With the new groove rules I investigated the relevance of dots. I made a few prototypes and played them. and noticed very good spin. The logic behind the dot is 1. dots are not directional 2. Dots can be deeper by than a groove 3. The industry does not want to do them because the are complicated 4. Dots do suck to clean if not properly cared for. The rules of golf have 3 pages on the groove and several paragraphs to dots. We Trackman'd our zip milled wedges vs dots and the dot got nearly 400 RPM's more spin. We also tested the iron and we hand great backspin and very low side spin numbers. We will conduct more tests to see what the benefits are and proceed forward based on the this info. To date everyone that has seen the irons and hit them want the dots not grooves. This includes a major winner, an US Am winner, 2 Nationwide players, 1 LPGA player, and hosts of PGA club professionals.

In conclusion, we are very excited with the feedback from the show. I hope you don't judge a golf club by what it looks like from the back, but how it performs when playing. I remember how we bashed the PIng Eye 2 in the day, and not too long later we were all playing them. Whether it is dots or grooves, all our clubs will be about functional bounce angles, lofts, and the distance gaps from iron to iron. We will not slap badges in the back and give more attention to how cool it looks in the bag vs how looks and feels when played. If you are serious about your game then maybe you will find in worthwhile to look into what we are doing. We will be working hard over the next year to perfect our processes so we will not make our push until next year and only offer limited production this year.

We were machining dots for a batch of wedges so we had the set up to do the irons and with little time to set up for grooves we just went with dots to see what people would say. After explaining the concept of bounce and the dots, most everyone was very interested in the dots. Since we finished the heads days before the show we really did not have much time to hit them ourselves. The nine was ground with 12 degrees of bounce, the 8 at 11 deg, and the 7 at 10.

We tested the dots at the show and we were blown away by the side spin numbers. I think the dots have some something good going on with face angles at impact and the round edges. We are really interested to see what an Iron Byron has to say about the concept. We will offer grooves as standard issue, but honestly everyone that we have showed them to want the dots. I knew that by showing them at the show there would be a lot of raised eyebrows. Our motivation regarding the irons is matching bounce angles and gaping lofts to match wedges to irons better. We find huge issues with fitting wedges and bumping into irons that don't match the players bounce needs. The industry tends to provide sole width in exchange for bounce angle. This sole width does not address the leading edge dig, but more towards training edge exit. Many industry PW's in the set are around 4 to 6, and if a player has 16 in a 52, then there is a big bounce issue going into the PW. Also lofts being stronger in other OEM sets make for big loft gaps from gap wedges to the set PW.

We will spend a lot of time working out all the details and work toward building fitting model that addresses flight and turf interaction. There is a lot of competition out there and varying price points. We are not trying to say that what we are doing is better than others, just that we will offer options to our fitters and customers. Each set is a one off so economics and personalization dictate the stick price to be higher.

We have some PVD heads being worked up right now, so I will post pictures if you guys are interested. Seems like if you don't show the finished product assumptions are made and we do not want to be perceived as something that we are not. Prototypes are just that, a proto, and these are true proto's.

[Doctorfro]

Ugly? Hardly!  Sort of put me in the mindset of PingEye2 cav back.

[mlf16507]

MVMac and Iacas-Looks like you guys are steppin' in high cotton!   Butch Harmon had a Edel banner on his wall when Feherty was interviewing him