Private C.C.'s

[mstuk]

It really ticks me off that in the UK and Ireland we provide an accomodation at our finest courses for visiting golfers in all but 3 cases Loch Lomond , The Wisley and Queenwood. So every summer all our great championship courses are playable to American visitors from Royal Dormoch down to Royal St Georges and across to Ballybunnion. The following are the top 10 courses listed in the US

Pine valley
Augusta National
Cypree Point
Shinnecock Hills
Pebble Beach
Oakmont
Merion
Sand Hills
National Golf links of America
Seminole

Only one of these courses is playable by myself as a visitor and I must say I find this an absolute disgrace and a situation you as americans should be far from happy with . As a further note of interest of the 3 courses that visitors are not welcomed at in the UK at least two are owned by Americans.

[laconic517]

the advantage of belonging to a private club vs being a member of a high end public course is easily the tee times, there arent outings or events or anything (outside the rare club outing) and the course will not be that conjested and its going to be manicured perfectly or there will be hell raised. I myself am not well off enough to be a member at the country club here in lansing, but ive worked there and played there a bunch of times and its easily better than all of the higher end priced public courses in the area, and you dont need to worry about leagues/tee times as much. Ive noticed that some of the higher end courses ($60+ greens fees) have absolute shit greens, they just get away with charging that much because people will pay it. The country club here in terms of conditions was easily as nice as warwick hills was when I walked on some of the fairways/near the greens after it was over (its the site of the buick open in grand blanc michigan) so I dont think conditions get much better than that (although the course has nothing on warwick hills in terms of the course itself).

Ya, its gay that a lot of places like augusta you know you will probably never play unless you qualify for the masters, but at least at a lot of places outside the country you can go play there for a bit of a hefty green fee (the k club was absolute shit when I played it, granted it was the winter)

[mstuk]

(the k club was absolute shit when I played it, granted it was the winter)

As discussed before quite why one would want to play the K club when one could play Portmarnock , County Louth , The European Club or the Island which are all close to the K club is beyond me .

[Matt P]

I don't know that much about CC's although my father did belog to one for a while when I was in high school, but do most CC's charge you a monthly fee and then green fees or cart fees on top of that.

Erik says that it was a cost savings. I have looked at a couple of the local CC's and don't have the 10K to 100K initiation fee to join and have the discretionary income to pay a hefty monthly fee and green fees, cart fees, and guest fees on top of that. Plus right now, I like playing different courses.

I imagine that CC's are generally better maintained but this may be due to the volume of traffic on the courses. In Michigan there are many very nice public courses, laconic needs to get out of lansing if the publics are bad over there (kinda like the football =) ), but they have more traffic and it has got to be harder to maintain the greens in comparison to a CC.

Around here I just don't see how it could be a cost benefit thing, unless your whole family uses the club and all your playing partners belong to the club, it may be different in Erie, how does the cost work out though?

[rusek]

CC greens are leaps and bounds better than all but the very best of the public courses, and generally the rest of the course fits into the same model.

While it may not be *cheaper* than going to a public course, there are many benefits.

In SE Michigan there are a few CCs that are pretty affordable (well not for me but others).

[hurley9192]

I agree with mstuk...it is a shame that are some of the greatest courses that many will never be able to play.

I went to the UK a couple years ago and played Sunningdale and then Muirfield, Old Course, Carnoustie, Turnberry, Troon, Prestwick, Kingsbarns, North Berwick and Panmure and felt totally accepted at all of those courses. Here in America, those type of courses are off limits. I wonder what it would be like if Pine Valley or Augusta would allow visitors to play on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 8-9 like Muirfield does?

One caveat though...there are way more golfers here in the states than in the UK and fewer courses per capita. As a low handicap, I would obviously agree with a minimum handicap to play some of the courses.

[dbriley]

For me, a private club only made financial sense. To play a public course, on the weekend, at a time that was inconvenient to me, for $150 per pop with my kids did not compare to a family membership for a little over $300 a month for unlimited golf and range balls. I was spending almost $100 per month just on range balls. A decent public course in this area is easily over $100 per round per person. I now can play any day of the week at just about any time and play in less than 3 1/2 hours. My weekend golf on a public course was a 7 hour event.

[Silvertree]

One caveat though...there are way more golfers here in the states than in the UK and fewer courses per capita. As a low handicap, I would obviously agree with a minimum handicap to play some of the courses.

So elitism is bad, unless you are the elite? I bet the 15 handicap or myself would enjoy the experience of playing one of these courses just as much as a lower handicap.

[rusek]

So elitism is bad, unless you are the elite? I bet the 15 handicap or myself would enjoy the experience of playing one of these courses just as much as a lower handicap.

The 15hdcp might enjoy it, but they do not want the guys shooting 100+ on the course slowing down play.

[Silvertree]

I believe that the courses Mstuk were referring to in England don't have a handicap requirement to play.

I am all about playing a reasonable round of golf, time wise. As a higher handicap player, I am very cognizant of playing at a speed that doesn't slow the group behind me. When I have started to really have trouble in the past, I pick up my ball and move on. Not all golfers do this, I realize, but that is more of an education and etiquette problem.

The whole discussion is hypothetical because the courses in question will never be opened for other to play. But to say handicap is the way to judge who should be able to play and who shouldn't is very short sighted IMO.

[hurley9192]

as a 15 handicap you would be fine...St. Andrews and Muirfield have max handicaps of 18. However, worse players get on there, but if they are bad and play slow, they won't get to play there again. Muirfield is known to have kicked out guests who are playing slow and the caddy can tell they faked their handicap. It would be similar to earning your way into the line. If you're not willing to work on your game to get it in the teens or better, then you miss out on playing some of the great courses. there has to be something...Pebble charges an arm and a leg to play, so there is some barrier to everything. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

[hurley9192]

fyi...almost all of the great Open courses in the UK required some type of verification...Carnoustie Muirfield Old Course

[Silvertree]

fyi...almost all of the great Open courses in the UK required some type of verification...Carnoustie Muirfield Old Course

I did not know that. I stand corrected.

[gortyl]

re-hashing some old threads here so that i don't get yelled at by someone saying "hey, we talked about that eight months ago!"

while the old course did ask for my handicap card, carnoustie did not....but point taken on the UK's great policy of open play on their highest rated courses.

regarding private clubs....iacas is right - if you shop around and have patience (i.e. take a year or two to join), you can find great deals. there's a course in suburban st. louis that had a promotion going on this spring with zero initiation fee and just $250 per month in dues (plus the usual cart fees and other very minimal fees). now before you go saying that anyone can find a crap club for that, this is a fantastic course, rated top 10 in the state of missouri by golf digest. it's a very tough course that plays 7200+ from the tips and even has a set of tees from over 8000 yards ( http://www.foxrungolfclub.com/ ).

i'm getting ready to join a club and have spent about 10 months shopping, the last 3 months very seriously shopping. it was pretty fun actually. i had many free meals, a few rounds of free golf on courses i've never played and got to meet a boatload of new people. i looked at clubs with no initiation up to $37k initiation. clubs within 2 minute drive to clubs within 45 minute drive.

now, granted, the number of private courses vary by area, but if you have time and patience and are willing to drive a bit, i believe the deals are out there (except for the immediate nyc area, maybe vegas, phoenix and a couple west coast areas).

[Leek]

Rick,

Colorado has great golf. Having lived there I played Riverdale (both courses), Arrowhead? (used to be TPC), a nice course in Rifle and Cordillera and Singletree (now Sonenalp) out in Edwards. All terrific courses.

I also played CC of the Rockies (home of the Ford Invitational), Denver CC and Cherry Hills. I thought they were better.

[Leek]

I've never heard of a private club that charged its members a greens fee, unless the member wasn't a golf member.

[TCCcaddie]

I live in North Shore Mass home to Salem CC and Myopia Hunt. I have caddied at Salem and currently caddie at Tedesco in Marblehead and I have a friend on my hs golf team that caddies at Sankity Head in Nantucket. So i have an idea of the private CC atmosphere.

And there is no escaping bad golfers anywhere you go. I'm a 15 but my AP classes at my HS demand that I am doing school work constantly, even in the summer which takes away the time that i would like to have praticing when not doing normal stuff with my friends, so my knowledge of the game is pretty extensive. It pains me when i have to caddy for a foursome who pays 15 G's a year at Tedesco to hack up a golf course and then one of them decides to take three holes off because he: a-doesn't feel like playing anymore, b-is too drunk to remember where he is, c-remembers that he hates golf and only joined to say that he joined and has to play the minimum amount of rounds to keep his membership or d(my personal favorite):all of the above.

It just sucks that average people like most of us won'e be able to get to play these caliber courses that some of us deserve to play through skill and hard work, my self not included, my father is. I know that me and my father in a 2 on 2 would beat 90% of the people at these courses. ANd don't even get me started on their wives. A foursome of 70 year old ladies jumps out in front of me and my caddie friends on Monday to play 4 holes from the front, walking. When we're teeing it up from the tips with carts and could play the hole course twice faster than they could play 9 holes.

Yeah i guess you could say "they payed they have a right to be there. Its a privalige for the caddies" but the utter disrespect that some of these members show for their course is downright ridiculous. And the way that they look at the caddies and the grounds crew. We dont get enough shit from the proshop guys and caddie master, who are biggest ass kissers in the world (and most of them don't even play golf, and are the member's sons who got their job from dad). I'm already starting to learn how to regrip, reshaft, ect. and when I give advice to member about how to fix something in their clubs or make a suggestion about club or shaft selection when i am knowledgeable on the subject they look at me like i got heads. In one occasion I recomended a shaft and lie angle to a guy and he blew me off, i saw him a week later and he was raving about the great service that the guy at such and such a place gave him and how it has really helped his play. And wouldn't you know it was the same shaft and lie angle i had told him. And when i caddied for him later he blew me off again.

I now im letting off steam here and it doesn't have much to do with the debate but i just hate the way that most of the people i have seen are in my eyes underserving to have acess to a great facility when there alot more undeserving who will never touch a place that good.

[Matt M]

All I can say about the exclusivity some private clubs is, that's part of the charm. Ultra exclusive clubs have members and most members of exclusive clubs like to show off their club. If your an avid golfer networking is your best bet to get onto private club. This can take some doing and time but if your really interested in playing a course what's a little time. Here in the area where I live we have a amateur league that puts on tournaments, most of the private clubs in the area's better players play in them. I've met a lot of nice people in these events and been invited to all the local private course around my hometown. A member of private club is the same as a local public regular who love's the game. It's all about networking and making new friends. I guess if your dream is Augusta then you'd better become friends (really, really good friends) with a member, and if you do please invite me!