Lie Angle

[jjvg4211]

Hello to All,

Does anyone think this lie angle is to upright? Its upright 2 degrees. Its clearing pointing to the left...

Thanks for the input..

J Gray

[mchepp]

Address does not tell you much. Likely your hands are higher at impact than address. Best thing for determining the lie angle is to put some impact tape on the bottom of the club and hit it. I have also seen a video where you draw a line on the ball hit it and then check if the line is straight on the club. Still I think the impact tape is the best.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mchepp

Address does not tell you much. Likely your hands are higher at impact than address. Best thing for determining the lie angle is to put some impact tape on the bottom of the club and hit it. I have also seen a video where you draw a line on the ball hit it and then check if the line is straight on the club. Still I think the impact tape is the best.

This. Impact tape is best. The picture isn't going to tell us much of anything.

[moparman426]

That tool is for measuring (I meant to say "indicating") static loft .  What really matters, when talking about the lie angle is the effective lie, which is what the impact tape will display, as suggested above.  You can use masking tape on the sole of your club as well.  Blue painters tape is awesome for this, as someone had suggested it to me in another thread a while back.  Here are a couple of pictures I took.  The black mark in the center of the scuff is from my alignment board.  You want the largest area of wear to line up with  the center of the club face, the grooved area (like mine ,  kidding).

edited for typos.

[moparman426]

An afterthought.....  Your loft indicator is pointing left because most, if not all UGI clubs have a closed face to aid with curing a slice.  It's the reason I sold my Big Berthas after only one season, as I hook instead of slice.  Continuously opening the club face to appear square at address gave me nothing but a big whopping balloon on most shots.

[glock35ipsc]

Agree with using tape and a lie board of some type.  The magnetic pointer is better used as a teaching aid to show the affects of lie angle and club face direction.

[RichWW2]

If you can't get tape right away, look at your divots.  If the outside is deeper and have a tendency to push everything, then odds are you will need to go more upright with the lie.
Source: Experience.  I had the exact same thing.  Got fitted and the lie on my clubs bent up 2 degrees and I can hit it straight now...sometimes...

[jjvg4211]

Thanks everyone for the insight. I knew I would get solid information. Moparman426 what are UGI clubs? I'm not familiar with that term.

[moparman426]

Ultra Game Improvement.  Your diablo Edge irons have an MPF (Maltby Playability Factor) of 968, which places them in the UGI category.  Other categories are SGI (Super Game Improvement), GI (Game Improvement), Conventional, Classic, and Players Classic.

Others have just three categories, SGI, GI and Players.

[jjvg4211]

Thanks Again...

[moparman426]

Originally Posted by RichWW2

Got fitted and the lie on my clubs bent up 2 degrees and I can hit it straight now...sometimes...

One of the most important steps in getting fitted.  There is nobody around my area that can bend clubs, as I also need 2 degrees up.  The only saving grace for me is that I play over length clubs, 1.25 inches to be exact, which places my effective lie pretty much right where I need it.  The static lie is still factory standard.  Shortening the irons would push the effective lie the other way.  So, if you are ever ordering clubs that are over/under length and need lie adjustments made as well, the length adjustment may play a factor.  I say "may" as not everyone swings exactly the same.

[Jon Robert]

Does any think the lie is too upright?  Your conscious and subconscious gyrations to correct what your brain perceives is wrong will answer that question. THIS WILL DRIVE A PERSON CRAZY.  see my lengthy explanation  below but I say if you perceive/see it to be upright then your brain will try and compensate during the swing. So yes it is too upright.

I am 6'4" tall I have been golfing 20 plus years. I am a do it yourselfer for anything due to tool talent and not the slightest bit of fear for doing just about anything. The following has been my experience.

I made up a clone of the pro club bending machines sold in club making catalogs for hundreds of dollars. RESULTS= Learned that yes SS is brittle and I broke many and rewelded. Forged steel are sweet to bend. After 3-4 degrees it gets risky to break them also.

I made and played the lightest "total weight" club construction possible (huge butts lightest grip etc) The theory being heavier "swing weight". RESULTS = terrible, it is like swinging a fly swatter. Never again.

I have glued on about 5 ounces of lead to the iron heads. RESULTS= great promise but 5 oz too heavy.

I started with minus 1" women's clubs moving on to using trigonometry that determine my shaft length to be plus 8". (based on lie angle and my hand height at address) I extended them to plus 8 and played them. RESULTS= Promising but too long for confidence, comfort, too flat of swing angle (need to bend lie angle well over breaking point of metal).

I have settled in on the following combination for me. 2 ounces of lead poured into the pouch of my Hogan Apex edge Irons produces the right heft for feel during the swing. Plus 3” for not too steep or flat of swing arc (swing plane) also comfortable at that arc.

The length requires that I bend the irons to be 2 ½ -3 degrees flat for a good witness mark on the lie angle swing test board. No matter the witness mark I like the look at address of 3-6 degrees. Right now I have 6 degrees flat and a stress mark on the iron hosel indicating that it can't bend any more with out cracking and breaking.

Length is a critical factor first before bending lie angle. Length produces the proper angle swing arc thus bending lie angle to accommodate the wrong (too steep) swing arch is a waste and pointless endeavor. weight may be required to "feel" the best swing arc.

The problem or hindrance is that trying to swing and play with a stock lie angle produces a bad too steep swing arch for tall golfers. It is near impossible to repeat a good in to out swing arc (swing plane) for me with clubs that are too short. There is no working room against the body. Adding weight or bending the lie angle is unproductive because it is still be too steep and jambing. There is only one body size that is ideal for a stock golf club. Short people must choke up and may be too flat of swing due to stature (unlikely but possible for some). And tall must get steep to use a stock lie angle.
People do not wear the same size foot wear or clothes. That should be enough said.
The best lie angle is determined by the length that produces the proper swing arc. Granted people do (and I have aplenty) get contorted to produce a swing that accommodates the stock lie angle. But such a contorted swing is unnatural, forced and counterproductive. Again there is only one body type whose dimensions produce an acceptably good swing using the stock club.

Club manufacturers make clubs for their convenience not to fit every golfer. I don't buy that every person in the world can be properly fit with plus or minus 1 inch. (hence my settling on plus 3" for me) Heck more goes into fitting a bowling ball or baseball bat than a golf club. At least a bowling ball is fitted for proper weight.

In summary if you want to improve you game via club fit then explore these issues in this order
1) length for proper swing arc path (not too steep) / 1A) weight for adequate heft/feel
2) lie angle adjustment

THIS WILL DRIVE A PERSON CRAZY.

Although the proper length/arc or swing plane has been found (just past the point of not too steep), the stock lie angle will be pointing toe up so visually "wrong" that the person will mentally reject the proper length as obviously all wrong. Whereas if that same length was accompanied by the correct flat lie angle everything would seem to be like summer time in paradise.

And don't be limited to someone else's notion of what is an acceptable adjustment. Like a 4 gram weight shaft plug. That is only .141095 ounce. A pregnant fly landing on your club might weigh more.
My weights are off the traditional scales. So I use a 2 ounce counter weight for woods and 3 1/2 ounce counterweight for irons in addition to the "Ping balance scale" affixed counter weight. My sets swing weights are then matched plus or minus 1 or 2 swing weights.

I say if you perceive/see it to be upright then your brain will try and compensate during the swing. So yes it is too upright.