Moving to Player's Irons.....

[bhp1404]

Were you hitting Project X 6.0 in the Razr because that would be way too stiff for a 78mph swing. Project X is best fit for higher swing speeds and more than likely wouldnt help you at all. You could still get the Razr but with a DG S300. Also dont even bother with Ping Anser, they are great but not $1400 great.

[Jtjohns]

Yes, it was a PX 6.0.  I just searched Callaway demo days and it looks like they are having one right around the corner from my house tomorrow!! Rest assured, I will be there to hit those clubs tomorrow!

[WUTiger]

The G10 heads have extreme cavity-perimeter weighting, AND the stock shafts are high-launch. So, people with a medium swingspeed likely will balloon the ball, especially on short irons.

The basic Callaway X-series iron models (pre-RazrX) were UGI clubs with helpful heads, but had Uniflex as stock shafts. Uniflex fell between regular and stiff, and had a mid-kickpoint for a more moderate trajectory. The Big Bertha irons of the era had high-launch shafts, and compared more closely to the G10s.

Two years into the RazrX family, and Callaway has seven variations on these irons. Razr X is the "center iron" of the set, comparable in role to the X20. You might look at the RazrX, RazrX Black or RazrX Tour.

Here's link to the seven : http://www.callawaygolf.com/global/en-us/golf-equipment/golf-clubs/irons.html

A Callaway rep came through Golfsmith last week, and the store clubfitters hit several different RazrX products. The two I spoke with liked the RazrX Forged, but weren't sure they had the swing for it. I would suggest a GI or an SGI model with the right shaft would be the way for you to go. Player's clubs give you zero margin of error on lower-quality shots. Plus, you can hit a fade or draw with any iron model - as long as you understand the ball flight laws.

As others have said, the shaft is just as important as the head model. And, a shaft that works for you in one iron model may not work in some other iron model. See shaft comparisons in a related  thread: http://thesandtrap.com/t/57603/kbs-shafts

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by Jtjohns

So I went and hit several clubs at GG.  I absolutely love the Callway Razr X Forged, but the guy at GG thinks they are too much club and the stiffness is too much at 6.0 for my swing speed.  My swing speed was 78 mph with a 6i, however, I have to keep in mind I was completely cold so it has to increase a bit as I get warmed up.  I hit several irons including: Ping Answer, Ping S56, Mizuno JP 800 Pro, AP2, and a muscle back from Mizuno that I cant remember, all of which were 6i.  My dispertion, according to the monitor was 15-20 yds right of the target line and an average carry of 173 yds.  Keep in mind that the clubs would need to be bent upright, as they were standard so my shots are definately going to be right of my target.  I mishit one ball out of about 40 and my grouping was all within 5-8 yards of one another, no matter what club I hit.

I don't know if I should listen to the guy and not get the Razr or go with it because I like it, even though I realize it's too stiff.  I figure as my swing gets better, speed will increase or maybe that's just me trying to justify it.

From a financial standpoint, I can get the entire set, 3-AW for $450, which means if it turns out I cant hit them consistently, I can sell them and should very well be able to recoup my loss.  The JP 800 Pro was nice, but didnt like the look at address, it still feels like a SGI to me for some reason, even though I guess it technically isn't.

Please offer up opinions as I really want to make a purchase as early as tomorrow before someone over bids on the Razr X Forged before I can get them at the $450 price.

Thanks Folks.

BTW, after hitting those shots I went to the range and hit my G10s like absolute sh!t, wasn't getting the distance I normally get, but that could have been because the flags were farther than I thought due to the practice zone being moved back and a slightly windy day, BUT STILL, I look down at my clubs pre-swing and hated them!

Personally, I would not go with stiffer shafts than what you need.  Yeah, you might eventually get your swingspeed up into the range for those shafts but whats to say you arent going to get frustrated and give up on them before that?

Id suggest getting reg flex and then at some point if you think you really need to go stiff, just get them reshafted or get a set of irons with stiff shafts.

[Precis1on]

You could always soft-step a stiff shaft as well. Although the last vendor I went to told me it didn't really make a difference.

I would pick a warmer day to go swing, and see if you can handle a stiff. You should be 80-85+ to ideally go with a stiff shaft.

[bhp1404]

Also try a lighter weight shaft. PX 6.0 is 120g and DG S300 is 130g. I was told by a fitter that 100-115 is better for people who have slow-med swing speeds. Im sure the Razr Forged are still fine but you have to hit multiple shafts to find the right combination. You can really tell a difference when you change shafts.

[Jtjohns]

This just a smooth, relaxed swing tempo for me..... I don't feel like its necessarily that slow... man, i feel like a lady man now :(

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Jtjohns

This just a smooth, relaxed swing tempo for me..... I don't feel like its necessarily that slow... man, i feel like a lady man now :(

Looks PDG to me.

[JoelCochran]

I don't think a video will do much to reveal your actual swing speed.  It's really about release through the hitting area: a slow looking swing with good release (or "whipping" action) can generate high swing speed.  Conversely, if you swing "all out" but with poor release it will look fast but actually have a slow swing speed.  I have a fairly lazy looking swing, but I generate around 105 with a driver (don't know what my 6 iron speed is) so I play stiff shafts.

Whatever you do, get properly fitted and get the shafts that fit you now: the idea that your swing speed will increase is probably wishful thinking, and as mentioned earlier can always be addressed later.

[MisterE]

Forged irons tend to be softer material, and have a better feel than cast irons as a general rule.  If you're looking for a good players iron, IMO forged is the way to go.

[Booya]

Find a nice used set of Ben Hogan Apex Edge Pro irons... can be had for ~$300-350, forged, combination of a players iron for the short irons, has a bit of cavity back on the longer irons...

easy to hit, I have a 4 hybrid i bought, and had it out on the range, and realized i had better ball flight and more consistency playing the 4i than the hybrid... I was aiming at a large oak tree about 190 yards out, was hitting nice soft/'balloony' trajectories with the hybrid that would bounce a couple times and settle up. I was clanging tree with the 4i...

I then spent some time cursing why i don't take a 3-4i off the tee more often and take my 200yds down the pipe all day long...

I need to work more on teeing off to the proper landing area and distances rather than blasting away with more variance and having half wedges and whatnot...

at the end of the day its the swing, not the club, keep that in mind.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by MisterE

Forged irons tend to be softer material, and have a better feel than cast irons as a general rule.  If you're looking for a good players iron, IMO forged is the way to go.

http://golf.about.com/od/faqs/f/cast_forged.htm

Interesting blurb about this...

" Question: How Do Cast Irons and Forged Irons Compare?

Answer: The terms "cast" and "forged" simply refer to the manufacturing process used to form the shape of the iron head.

Casting always involves turning the metal from which the ironhead is to be made into its molten, liquid state, after which it is poured into a mold to form the ironhead design.

Forging involves literally pounding or compressing the metal, in its solid form, from which the ironhead is made into the designed shape of the ironhead, after which a number of other machining and drilling steps are necessary to complete the production of the ironhead.

If you have a cast iron and a forged iron of exactly the same shape and weight distribution design, the same loft, the same center of gravity position in the two heads, and the heads are built with the same shaft, same length, same grip and same swingweight / MOI , hitting the same ball, the shots will fly identical distances and 99-percent of all golfers will never know which was forged and which was cast.

Most of the remaining 1-percent want to believe that the forged iron would be softer in feel because the carbon steel of a typical forging is a softer metal, but scientific research has shown that the hardness difference in a metal alone is not enough to create a difference in impact feel. All of the other factors listed above are the reason for differences in the feel of shots hit with one club vs. another."

[bhp1404]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

http://golf.about.com/od/faqs/f/cast_forged.htm

Interesting blurb about this...

"Question: How Do Cast Irons and Forged Irons Compare?

Answer: The terms "cast" and "forged" simply refer to the manufacturing process used to form the shape of the iron head.

Casting always involves turning the metal from which the ironhead is to be made into its molten, liquid state, after which it is poured into a mold to form the ironhead design.

Forging involves literally pounding or compressing the metal, in its solid form, from which the ironhead is made into the designed shape of the ironhead, after which a number of other machining and drilling steps are necessary to complete the production of the ironhead.

If you have a cast iron and a forged iron of exactly the same shape and weight distribution design, the same loft, the same center of gravity position in the two heads, and the heads are built with the same shaft, same length, same grip and same swingweight/MOI, hitting the same ball, the shots will fly identical distances and 99-percent of all golfers will never know which was forged and which was cast.

Most of the remaining 1-percent want to believe that the forged iron would be softer in feel because the carbon steel of a typical forging is a softer metal, but scientific research has shown that the hardness difference in a metal alone is not enough to create a difference in impact feel. All of the other factors listed above are the reason for differences in the feel of shots hit with one club vs. another."

I dont want to get off topic and this is all probably true, but no where in the world is there a cast club that is built to exact specs as any forged club. So scientifically this is true but realisticly this situation doesnt exist. Ex: there is no direct cast equivilent to Titleist CB, MB, AP2

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by bhp1404

I dont want to get off topic and this is all probably true, but no where in the world is there a cast club that is built to exact specs as any forged club. So scientifically this is true but realisticly this situation doesnt exist. Ex: there is no direct cast equivilent to Titleist CB, MB, AP2

Agreed.  I think it's just saying that if this scenario did exist, the forged club would not feel noticeably softer than the cast club even if the material was indeed softer.

[Jtjohns]

Holy Crap!!! Just came from a demo day where I got fitted for the Razr X Forged and actually hit it outside.  I've never hit a 6i so far in my life.  My swing speed was 85mph and best carry was 183 yds.  Turns out that my length was standard as well as my lie.  I had the chance to hit a few different shafts and I hit the KBS stiff the best.  I generally struck the center of the club face, my mishits were few and were thin when I did, which is typical for me because I sometimes lift out of the shot (mental issue).

I'm thinking I'm going to look on line and see if I can find a used set for a good price that fits my specs and try them out for a while.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by bhp1404

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

http://golf.about.com/od/faqs/f/cast_forged.htm

Interesting blurb about this...

"Question: How Do Cast Irons and Forged Irons Compare?

Answer: The terms "cast" and "forged" simply refer to the manufacturing process used to form the shape of the iron head.

Casting always involves turning the metal from which the ironhead is to be made into its molten, liquid state, after which it is poured into a mold to form the ironhead design.

Forging involves literally pounding or compressing the metal, in its solid form, from which the ironhead is made into the designed shape of the ironhead, after which a number of other machining and drilling steps are necessary to complete the production of the ironhead.

If you have a cast iron and a forged iron of exactly the same shape and weight distribution design, the same loft, the same center of gravity position in the two heads, and the heads are built with the same shaft, same length, same grip and same swingweight/MOI, hitting the same ball, the shots will fly identical distances and 99-percent of all golfers will never know which was forged and which was cast.

Most of the remaining 1-percent want to believe that the forged iron would be softer in feel because the carbon steel of a typical forging is a softer metal, but scientific research has shown that the hardness difference in a metal alone is not enough to create a difference in impact feel. All of the other factors listed above are the reason for differences in the feel of shots hit with one club vs. another."

I dont want to get off topic and this is all probably true, but no where in the world is there a cast club that is built to exact specs as any forged club. So scientifically this is true but realisticly this situation doesnt exist. Ex: there is no direct cast equivilent to Titleist CB, MB, AP2

The original Cleveland TA3s were cast. Due to customer demands, they came out with a forged ("form forged") version. I have the FF version.

The Tommy Armour 845 CM combos were available in cast and forged versions (my wife has the forged version in her bag right now).

[Jtjohns]

Just took the leap!!! The Razr X Forged is on the way!!!

[moparman426]

Nice!  Grats on the new sticks!