KBS Shafts

**xmanhockey7** · April 29, 2012

I'm going to be getting Titleist irons soon, AP1 5 irons and AP2 6-W. I hit KBS shafts in my friends Ping S56's and I liked the feel and am considering getting them. What would you guys suggest. I could get Dynamic Gold shafts at no extra cost and the DG Sensicore for a little cheaper than the KBS and a little extra charge than regular Dynamic Gold shafts. What would you guys suggest? Also should I get the same shafts in the Vokey wedges I plan on getting? Seems like wedge shafts truly aren't as important because well I'm not taking full shots with them so I can get away with the stock DG shafts.

Note: I will not get Project X shafts. Every club I have tried them in I simply do NOT like.

**snofrog** · April 29, 2012

imho the KBS shafts give a bit lower trajectory and transfer a bit more feel than the tt shafts . Only you can make the decision on what is right for you

**WUTiger** · April 29, 2012

AP2s use .355" taper shafts. Comparison of specs on taper shafts (courtesy of the The GolfWorks 2012 catalog):

Shaft............. FCM*	Wt.grams	Bend Pt	Tip
KBS Tour R....5.0	110	Mid	Medium
KBS Tour S....6.0	120	Mid/High	Med / Stiff
TT DG R300...4.8	127	High	Firm
TT DG S300...5.8	130	High	Firm

* FCM figures - indicating relative stiffness - from GolfWRX.com online chart:

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/496072-new-and-improved-shaft-chart/

------------------------------------

Overall Comparison

KBS shafts somewhat lighter, and have a more medium launch angle. DG are heavier, with lower launch angle. KBS.R has somewhat softer tip than the other three.

FCM rating compares shafts on relative stiffness; KBSs are slightly stiffer than the DGs. In comparison, PX shafts are stiffer than both:

PX 5.0 has FCM = 5.5; PX 6.0 has FCM = 6.5 (possibly why xman doesn't like them?)

As for price per shaft, the KBS Tours sell for about $25, the DGs about $18.

**xmanhockey7** · April 29, 2012

Originally Posted by WUTiger

AP2s use .355" taper shafts. Comparison of specs on taper shafts (courtesy of the The GolfWorks 2012 catalog):

Shaft.............FCM*

Wt.grams

Bend Pt

Tip

KBS Tour R....5.0

110

Mid

Medium

KBS Tour S....6.0

120

Mid/High

Med / Stiff

TT DG R300...4.8

127

High

Firm

TT DG S300...5.8

130

High

Firm

* FCM figures - indicating relative stiffness - from GolfWRX.com online chart:

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/496072-new-and-improved-shaft-chart/

------------------------------------

Overall Comparison

KBS shafts somewhat lighter, and have a more medium launch angle. DG are heavier, with lower launch angle. KBS.R has somewhat softer tip than the other three.

FCM rating compares shafts on relative stiffness; KBSs are slightly stiffer than the DGs. In comparison, PX shafts are stiffer than both:

PX 5.0 has FCM = 5.5; PX 6.0 has FCM = 6.5 (possibly why xman doesn't like them?)

As for price per shaft, the KBS Tours sell for about $25, the DGs about $18.

Hmm if the DG's are a lower launch I may want to go with them because when I hit the demo 6 iron with the DG shaft I hit it plenty high. And I don't exactly understand the "FCM". Is the reason I don't like the PX is because of the stiffness? Also price is not a concern for me. I have considered the DG sensicore shafts.

**clubchamp** · April 29, 2012

If price is no concern why not go and get a fitting to see which shaft gives you the best results?

**xmanhockey7** · April 30, 2012

Originally Posted by clubchamp

If price is no concern why not go and get a fitting to see which shaft gives you the best results?

With school and work I don't think I'd have the time going to a place where I could hit the different shafts and I'd have to spend money on getting fit (money matters a bit for that even though I'd probably be worth it).

**WUTiger** · April 30, 2012

Originally Posted by xmanhockey7

... And I don't exactly understand the "FCM". Is the reason I don't like the PX is because of the stiffness?...

FCM stands for Frequency Coefficient Matching. The FCM system is based on cycle per minute (CPM) data from golf shaft oscillation tests. The higher the cycles per minute, the stiffer the shaft. CPM of 258 (oscillations per minute) would yield a FCM of 5.8... drop the 2, and convert the remainder into a two-digit decimal. Incidentally, 5.8 is the FCM of a DG S300 shaft.

FCM allows shaft flex comparisons across different models and manufacturers. Check out my earlier grid to see the different variations flavors of "stiff."

If you want the science class details, check this site: http://forums.iseekgolf.com/forums/13-golf-equipment/topics/48696-shaft-flex-scalesfcm-cpm-or-rifle?page=1

Note: According to shaft charts, Sensicore inserts do not noticeably change the weight of the shaft.

**Clambake** · April 30, 2012

Originally Posted by xmanhockey7

With school and work I don't think I'd have the time going to a place where I could hit the different shafts and I'd have to spend money on getting fit (money matters a bit for that even though I'd probably be worth it).

You're about to buy a thousand dollar set of irons, and you're obviously interested in something that is better fit to your swing or you wouldn't even be asking about the different shafts. Seriously, take the time and money to do a proper fitting - it will only take you an hour and maybe $50. If you can't find an hour somewhere in your schedule then maybe a little time management is in order (maybe less time on TST?). And that extra few dollars for a fitting is a LOT cheaper than buying something you decide isn't right and then replacing shafts or clubs a year from now.

It will also do wonders for your confidence in that you won't be second guessing your choices every time you reach to the bag to pull a club. If you're not willing to put in the little time and money to give your game the best chance possible, then maybe buying top of the line Titleists aren't really the best choice for your game anyway, and you can save a lot of $$$ and buy from Costco instead.

BTW, I was recently fit for new irons and was really surprised at how different shafts felt with different heads. You mention you liked how the KBS felt in your freind's Pings, but that doesn't mean they'll feel best for you with the AP1/AP2s. I narrowed down my choices to either AP2 with DG or Mizuno MP59 with KBS Tours. Interestingly, the KBS didn't work as well in the AP2s for me and the DG didn't work as well in the MP59s, but the MP59 with KBS was clearly the best combo. You're really buying a "system" of head and shaft, and I don't know how to do the effectively without the help of a qualified fitter.

**MisterE** · April 30, 2012

and a lot of the time, the fitting is free if you end up buying your clubs at the store, go for a fitting if you're serious!

**xmanhockey7** · April 30, 2012

Originally Posted by Clambake

You're about to buy a thousand dollar set of irons, and you're obviously interested in something that is better fit to your swing or you wouldn't even be asking about the different shafts.       Seriously, take the time and money to do a proper fitting - it will only take you an hour and maybe $50. If you can't find an hour somewhere in your schedule then maybe a little time management is in order (maybe less time on TST?). And that extra few dollars for a fitting is a LOT cheaper than buying something you decide isn't right and then replacing shafts or clubs a year from now.

It will also do wonders for your confidence in that you won't be second guessing your choices every time you reach to the bag to pull a club.     If you're not willing to put in the little time and money to give your game the best chance possible, then maybe buying top of the line Titleists aren't really the best choice for your game anyway, and you can save a lot of $$$ and buy from Costco instead.

BTW, I was recently fit for new irons and was really surprised at how different shafts felt with different heads.    You mention you liked how the KBS felt in your freind's Pings, but that doesn't mean they'll feel best for you with the AP1/AP2s.      I narrowed down my choices to either AP2 with DG or Mizuno MP59 with KBS Tours.    Interestingly, the KBS didn't work as well in the AP2s for me and the DG didn't work as well in the MP59s, but the MP59 with KBS was clearly the best combo.      You're really buying a "system" of head and shaft, and I don't know how to do the effectively without the help of a qualified fitter.

The problem is the nearest "advanced fitting center" is 2 hours away. The nearest regional fitting center is 2 1/2 hours away. I can go to a place that has the sure fit cart/bag but they're not going to have the different shaft options like the KBS shafts.

**clubchamp** · April 30, 2012

If it was me and I was spending that kind of money I'd probably make the trip instead of assuming this shaft will work. I mean you are buying something you will have for years so what's 4 hours round trip to figure out what shaft will work best for you. I mean it's your money so feel free to do whatever you want but it's a lot of money to buy something you think will work. I'm kind of luckily I have a couple advance fitters not far from me the other option is to look when courses around you are having demo days.

**Hoselrockets** · April 30, 2012

Take the time...I too didn't have the time when I bought my Mizuno 57's and ended up with PX 6.0 shafts. Needless to say I had 2 years of horrible golf and the entire time wishing I was fitted correctly. Well after sub par golf shots I made time this year and was fitted and the proper fit for me was KBS stiff. So then I had to purchase the shafts and have them installed. Wishing the entire time that I would have taken the time to do it the first time around. I told my self never again will I let that happen when I'm making such a large investment in clubs. So I guess you know what my recommendation would be.....take the time and get fitted. Good luck.

**Clambake** · April 30, 2012

Originally Posted by xmanhockey7

The problem is the nearest "advanced fitting center" is 2 hours away. The nearest regional fitting center is 2 1/2 hours away.

That's too bad that you'd have to travel so far. But look at it this way - the whole trip would take about the same as a round of golf somewhere, and the cost of a fitting (if not thrown in with purchase, especially if you tell them you need to drive so far to visit them) is about the same as the cost of a round also. So by basically just giving up a single round, you'll walk away with a set of irons/shafts that you have full confidence and will be more likely to help your game.

If you do get fit, you'll brim with confidence with every shot you take. That confidence will allow you to swing freely, and you'll find yourself hitting farther and straighter than ever before. Your short game and putting will also improve since you'll be hitting it so much closer. Your handicap will plummet, and you'll find yourself starting to compete with friends and eventually more tournaments. You'll be winning skins and prizes, making the fitting to be one of the best investments you'll ever make.

If you don't, the buyer's remorse may get to you. Each time you hit a shot off target, you'll wonder if it was really you or maybe the shaft. These feelings of doubt will gradually grow stronger and stronger with each passing month, eventually causing you to question yourself with each and every shot. Those feelings will creep into your putting and short game as well, destroying any self-confidence you may have had in your golf game. As you continue to beat yourself up with doubt, this will start spilling into the rest of your life as well. It will begin with little things, like "should I have had the toast or muffin?" at breakfast, and will grow to consume you as you question all of your decisions in life from your career to relationships. Friends will disappear as they no longer care for your sniveling self-whining anymore. Women will shun you - they don't like a man without confidence. Eventually you'll be reduced to a shell of your former self, wandering the streets alone obsessing on each and every decision you make, building up a level of OCD that may never be overcome even with years and years of expensive psychotherapy.

So, take the time. That small investment you make will reward you many times over and will help you avoid sinking into a psychological abyss, save your career and relationships, and save you many thousands of dollars. Trust us....we know from experience!

**xmanhockey7** · April 30, 2012

Originally Posted by Clambake

That's too bad that you'd have to travel so far.   But look at it this way - the whole trip would take about the same as a round of golf somewhere, and the cost of a fitting (if not thrown in with purchase, especially if you tell them you need to drive so far to visit them) is about the same as the cost of a round also.    So by basically just giving up a single round, you'll walk away with a set of irons/shafts that you have full confidence and will be more likely to help your game.

If you do get fit, you'll brim with confidence with every shot you take.   That confidence will allow you to swing freely, and you'll find yourself hitting farther and straighter than ever before.     Your short game and putting will also improve since you'll be hitting it so much closer.    Your handicap will plummet, and you'll find yourself starting to compete with friends and eventually more tournaments.   You'll be winning skins and prizes, making the fitting to be one of the best investments you'll ever make.

If you don't, the buyer's remorse may get to you.   Each time you hit a shot off target, you'll wonder if it was really you or maybe the shaft.    These feelings of doubt will gradually grow stronger and stronger with each passing month, eventually causing you to question yourself with each and every shot.   Those feelings will creep into your putting and short game as well, destroying any self-confidence you may have had in your golf game.     As you continue to beat yourself up with doubt, this will start spilling into the rest of your life as well.   It will begin with little things, like "should I have had the toast or muffin?" at breakfast, and will grow to consume you as you question all of your decisions in life from your career to relationships.    Friends will disappear as they no longer care for your sniveling self-whining anymore.   Women will shun you - they don't like a man without confidence.      Eventually you'll be reduced to a shell of your former self, wandering the streets alone obsessing on each and every decision you make, building up a level of OCD that may never be overcome even with years and years of expensive psychotherapy.

So, take the time.    That small investment you make will reward you many times over and will help you avoid sinking into a psychological abyss, save your career and relationships, and save you many thousands of dollars.        Trust us....we know from experience!

I could always just stay at a Holiday Inn lol. Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely put more consideration into though I can't get the fitting to be discounted from the clubs because I order them right from Titleist through my school which even with fitting works out to be much less than I would otherwise have to pay. When I hit the DG shaft though I have to say I really liked the ball flight, distance, and feel I was getting.

**M2R** · April 30, 2012

Originally Posted by Clambake
...

If you don't, the buyer's remorse may get to you. Each time you hit a shot off target, you'll wonder if it was really you or maybe the shaft. These feelings of doubt will gradually grow stronger and stronger with each passing month, eventually causing you to question yourself with each and every shot. Those feelings will creep into your putting and short game as well, destroying any self-confidence you may have had in your golf game. As you continue to beat yourself up with doubt, this will start spilling into the rest of your life as well. It will begin with little things, like "should I have had the toast or muffin?" at breakfast, and will grow to consume you as you question all of your decisions in life from your career to relationships. Friends will disappear as they no longer care for your sniveling self-whining anymore. Women will shun you - they don't like a man without confidence. Eventually you'll be reduced to a shell of your former self, wandering the streets alone obsessing on each and every decision you make, building up a level of OCD that may never be overcome even with years and years of expensive psychotherapy.

...

HILL - AIR - E - US!!!! That explains so much. Years ago I got fit for MX-23 irons with Dynalite Gold shafts and went with something else. I ruined my life to save $699

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KBS Shafts

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