club fitting and shaft flex

[thementhol]

I am in the market looking for new iron set. I went to get fitted in the store and tried some Cobra FP, Cleveland CG4 and Ping G5.

I had about 101~104 mph swing speed. They didn't use radar thing to measure my swing speed instead they pulled out some pipe looking tester thingy and asked me to swing normally.

That guy told me to get a regular flex "steel" instead of regular "graphite" to gain consistency but when I came home to check out those shaft flex charts on some sites, it says I should get a stiff flex with that swing speed.

So should I get a regular flex steel or a stiff graphite/steel ? I felt pretty good with those irons though but I just want to get a right fit.

thanks for the help!!

[tdinneen]

Shaft flex isn't just based on swing speed (incidentally what club measured 105mph? driver / 6 iron 'cos swing speed differs with club length / weight). It depends as much on tempo, trajectory etc.

Generally a stiffer flex will give you accuracy and a softer flex distance. You sometimes hear people say get the softest flex that you can control. Which means if you can control a regular shaft just as well as a stiff shaft the regular should give you more distance in the long irons and less distance (more accuracy) in the short irons ('cos the decreased flex allows the shaft to bend forward more on impact, which increases loft). And who doesn't want more distance in long irons and more accuracy in the shorts.

Back to tempo. If you've got a smooth swing, you can go softer flex. If you have a quick snappy swing, go stiffer. So if you feel the club bending a little too much at transition (back to downswing) go stiffer.

How does the club feel at impact? spongy / soft... maybe try a stiffer shaft. If it feels like a 4x4 block of wood then try softer.

On to tragectory. Tip flex is important as well. If the shaft feels like the right flex for you, so not too bendy at transitions. Good contact / feedback but the ball flies low or high, then getting the same flex shaft with a stiffer or softer flexed tip may ne the way to go.

At the end of the day you want a shaft that give you a good accuracy with consistant tragectory / distance control. Sounds simple but I'd really find a golf shop that's got a launch monitor. It helps heaps to see different tragectories with different shafts.

Personally I'd stay away from graphite shafts in irons, unless you have trouble generating speed (which you don't).

[thementhol]

thx for the info it helps alot.

I will go back to the store tomorrow and see how it turns out !!

[indacup]

What you used to measure your speed at the shop was a "Speedstik" which can be "fooled" into giving wrong readings...

Assuming it is close to accurate, and your driver speed is in that area, it would be pretty safee to say your five iron speed would be aroun 85 mph give or take a few MPH.

What Tdneenein (sp?) mentioned was all true and great info....Except recommending steel over graphite.

That was a very blanket statement that used to be more true 5 years ago...but these days, there's more reason TO go to graphite than not to. Especially for us rank amatures.

SOme will tell you that graphite is too whippy, too expensive less accurate...etc...all things that were true years ago...but technology has caught up.

[thementhol]

well I understand the steel and graphite shaft thing

I guess I will just try some more clubs with both shafts and flexes, see how it turns out

thx guys !!

[indacup]

well I understand the steel and graphite shaft thing

Yes. Always go in with an open mind and make your decision on what FEELS best to YOU...

If you get worried, please feel free to email me....

[tdinneen]

Actually I have to own up to the fact that I haven't tried graphite shafts on clubs in years. So it could all be a better experience now have to say that the stock shafts on some of the hybrids I've been trying recently have been quite nice.

So maybe ignore my graphite over steel and try them all out. At that end of the day it comes down to a clubhead / shaft combo that delivers a consistent flight (only a driving range or golf simulator will give the info you need, hitting into a net at a golf shop doesn't really give you much feedback).

Also, note that graphite shafts are lighter (70-80 grams versus lets say 130 for a Dynamic Golds which seem to be the goto steel shaft's these days), so the overall club weight is less (albeit the clubhead will be heavier to match the swingweights, but overall it'll weight less). Which means you're swingspeed will be faster. Which translates to distance. Not always a good thing if you have to give up on accuracy. So again try them all out on a launch monitor. You can change colours for each club and see the trajectories / distances / carry etc... etc...)

[Erlend]

Sorry for making this thread alive again, but I just have one question, as I`m wondering about something about the shaft flex, and I don`t think it is necessary to start a new thread.

When you hit a driver with a shaft that is too stiff for you, how will the ball fly? I know it will tend to the right, but how will it look like? Will it sort of go in a bow, from straight to right in a very crooked way? Not as a regular slice?

[tdinneen]

If a shaft is too stiff, you'd usually see a lower ball flight ('cos clubhead doesn't flex as much towards target 'cos of stiffer flex'd shaft) and because of a lower ball flight you'd loose distance.

You might have a tendency to fade a bit as well, so if you normally hit a slight draw you might end up with a slight fade. If you hit a fade normally you might end up slicing.

So in combination you'd hit a low fade (so yeah it'd start straight and slowly hook to the right).

How does it feel on center hits, like a block of 4x4? or a nice sweet senstation?

Torque might also cause a slight fade / slice (note torque causes the clubhead to twist before you hit the ball, not at impact!). So maybe try the same stiffness with a lower torque??? although looking at stats recently most shafts (graphite that is) have a torque less that 6 or 7 degrees, so unless you are really muscling it that shouldn't really be an issue. Note you can have a shaft that has too low a torque for your swing!!! for us amateurs anywhere within 4-6 is fine.

If as indacup suggests your 5 iron is around 85mph, then I'd be looking at stiff if you have a fast tempo, maybe regular if you have a slow tempo??

[MGP]

What you used to measure your speed at the shop was a "Speedstik" which can be "fooled" into giving wrong readings...

Hehe... I've almost quit trying to tell people that, they don't believe me. But almost everyone I've let hit my graphite shafted Golfsmith D2 irons have hit them well and said "wow, those feel really nice for graphite shafted irons".

The D2's don't even have particularly high-end shafts in them either, just decent moderately priced ones -- about the same cost as a good TT steel shaft.

[fusioncal]

At first I bought it my irons (Fusion) were all graphite. The reason why I chose to reshaft them was solely because steel looks cooler (you know when you're out there on the course addressing the ball and wiggling your club, the sun shines on the shaft creating this cool looking glare). I didn't really think of what could happen back then, but after reshafting my score went ballistic up to +15 every round and I was all stressed out. LOL

After like 3 months re-learning and getting used to them I managed to shaved off my score even better than I was using graphite. I think it's all significantly because of the difference in feel and (swing)weight. Anyway, now I'm glad I'm able to work things out and I'm on the path of shaving even more scores (once I really get a hold of short game... )

If a shaft is too stiff, you'd usually see a lower ball flight ('cos clubhead doesn't flex as much towards target 'cos of stiffer flex'd shaft) and because of a lower ball flight you'd loose distance.

I'm using my r7 460cc 10.5 in regular flex. I don't know if I'm actually needing stiffer flex but everytime I muscle my swing the result would be rather high fade sometimes slice. But when I smooth it the ball would go center but too high and less distance. So my question is, do I need stiffer flex with current loft (10.5) or current flex but lower loft (9.5)?

To see how I smooth it out please go to this link below: http://www.youtube.com/v/2xz1d9FILKk Please give me any comments you might have. Thanks!

[AndrewM]

Shaft flex has definitely changed over the years... As has been mentioned already it is really more of a function of ball flight dynamics created by the shaft and head combination than it is about the absolute specs of the shaft.

It is important that you pick the flex (and the shaft in general) based on how YOU hit YOUR clubs.

Getting fit for a set of clubs can easily result in worse ball flight or a blanket masking of a flaw. The problem with getting fit to mask a flaw, is that as soon as you make a better swing, you can be penalized for it, because your club is built to a poor swing rather than a good one.

In addition, the shaft that works for the guy standing next to you with the same swing speed and same set of irons, may be the worst one in the world for you. Assuming you can generate somewhat of a consistent swing, then the shaft and head combo has to fit YOU.

Dont buy on flex alone, material alone, name alone, buy on results.

Additionally "flex" is so transient from shaft to shaft, the only way to really compare flex is on a machine that measures cycles. Every club fitter should have one so that shouldnt be an issue.

[iacas]

It is important that you pick the flex (and the shaft in general) based on how YOU hit YOUR clubs.

The problem with that is this: I talked with a guy who's renowned for club fitting. People drive three hours to get fit by this guy.

He says unless you're in a horrible accident or otherwise have something severe happen that changes your body, your fitting stays roughly the same from the time you're 18 through to when you're 50 or later. He says aside from the obvious shaft flex changes (i.e. when you get to be a senior), you pretty much are always the same thing there, too. Most people don't undergo tempo changes. Most people don't suddenly gain 20 MPH driver swing speed. Most people don't grow or otherwise change their swing SO dramatically as to need any more than a small tweak, he says. I wouldn't have believed it either, except I believed the guy who was telling me.

[indacup]

The problem with that is this: I talked with a guy who's renowned for club fitting. People drive three hours to get fit by this guy.

I kinda agree with that..and kinda don't...

When we fit someone the first time we record all static and dynamic information and keep it in a database so when they comeback for other clubs down the line, we have all the information at hand because, as the fitter mentioned above, those things usually don't change. But when they come back for another club months or years down the line, we ask them if any changes have occurred since last visit...i.e. substantial weight gain or loss, injury, relocation to different state....then we ask if their handicap is about the same...if a person went from a 18 hdcp one year and two years later is a 7 hdcp, chances are their swing and needs have changed.

[AndrewM]

The problem with that is this: I talked with a guy who's renowned for club fitting. People drive three hours to get fit by this guy.

If he is proposing that he fits a guy as a 20+ handicap who is just starting out... then he fits the same guy as he has improved to a 3 handicap, and its the same.. i beg to differ...... IF we are using DYNAMIC fit... if we are static fitting the person, then no, the changes wont be dramatic because static takes into account almost 0 movement... only body size, hand size, arm length etc. Unfortunately, I believe static fitting is flawed because it doesnt take into account the dynamic action of the golf swing... of course dynamic fitting is a much less sound fit for a high handicap because of the lack of consistent swing dynamics.

[iacas]

If he is proposing that he fits a guy as a 20+ handicap who is just starting out... then he fits the same guy as he has improved to a 3 handicap, and its the same.. i beg to differ...... IF we are using DYNAMIC fit... if we are static fitting the person, then no, the changes wont be dramatic because static takes into account almost 0 movement... only body size, hand size, arm length etc.

He's not. He does a very dynamic fitting and uses the static fitting as only a guide or a starting point.

Perhaps hidden in his story is the fact that most golfers don't generally dramatically improve or, uhhh, get worse. Maybe that's a part of it. Again, it struck me as weird, but the guy is well renowned and knows his stuff: http://www.titleist.com/news/newsdetail.asp?id=315 http://www.titleist.com/news/newsdetail.asp?id=307

[AndrewM]

Perhaps hidden in his story is the fact that most golfers don't generally dramatically improve or, uhhh, get worse. Maybe that's a part of it.

I have to defer to that as the basic reason :) lol

[AndrewM]

I would also like to add, that as I mentioned earlier, if the swing isnt consistent it is near impossible to give a good fit. So if the fitter gives the customer a club that is designed for a better motion, that to me does them more service than giving them a club specifically designed to mask their flaws... but that is just my opinion