Strange question (age 3-10, shot length?)

[Lihu]

I see them often at the par 3 course. Honestly they are all over the place, abilities vary by coordination, time playing to you name it. The 3-6 kids rarely make decent contact unless they are a prodigy. If you've seen the young Tiger Woods clips that's about as good as it gets. Kids 7-10 tend to be as good as their dedication and time allows. I started when I was a kid, was on the junior team at the local course. By the time we graduated from the par 3 course we were long enough to bogey-double bogey from the reds.

Yes, less than 5 years old is very rare to have someone that can play at all.

A typical First Tee instructed kid by 6 or 7 playing in the "birdie" class can play well enough to have fun on the course, and the older they get the better are the remaining ones.

[Pretzel]

I know from helping with the "junior golf league" at my local course that any kid over 7 is likely to hit their driver/fairway wood (often one and the same in kids' sets) around 150 yards or more if they're older. By age 12 there's usually 2-3 of the boys who just try to cream it and will occasionally knock one out there to 250, but they're usually inaccurate. However, from ages 3-5 you'll see big swings and big misses mostly. When they do make solid contact it will go a little ways, but not too far.

One other thing to note for kids in the 7-10 year old range: They hit a 7-iron and a fairway wood pretty close to the same distance up to a point. A lot of the kids will hit their fairway woods around 150 and their 7-iron 125. My guess it has everything to do with quality of contact, just since a 7-iron is a much more forgiving club especially when hit from the ground. As far as wedges goes it can depend greatly upon technique. Some kids think that they're supposed to deloft their wedges in the swing, since people told them to do that for chips, and hit it as far as a short iron and other can scoop it and end up with it going nowhere.

Here's what I would call a general "yardage chart" based on age groups.

3-5 years - ~50-100 with fairway wood, maybe 30 with iron, and around 15 for a wedge. Highly inconsistent contact, often only going 10 yards or less with any club

6-8 years - ~125-175 with fairway wood, probably about 75-100 with an iron, and around 50-75 for a wedge. Contact more consistent and kids getting bigger

9-10 years - ~150-200 with fairway wood, somewhere in the range of 100-125 for an iron, and likely 75-100 for a wedge. Some kids in this age group will excel and be able to beat you with a stellar short game to compensate for lost distance. You also may get a couple kids who play terribly because the only thing they care about is how far they can hit it.

[Crim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretzel

Here's what I would call a general "yardage chart" based on age groups.

3-5 years - ~50-100 with fairway wood, maybe 30 with iron, and around 15 for a wedge. Highly inconsistent contact, often only going 10 yards or less with any club

6-8 years - ~125-175 with fairway wood, probably about 75-100 with an iron, and around 50-75 for a wedge. Contact more consistent and kids getting bigger

9-10 years - ~150-200 with fairway wood, somewhere in the range of 100-125 for an iron, and likely 75-100 for a wedge. Some kids in this age group will excel and be able to beat you with a stellar short game to compensate for lost distance. You also may get a couple kids who play terribly because the only thing they care about is how far they can hit it.

This is good stuff right here, I'm starting to narrow the yardage down a little bit with your guy's help. Once I get what I feel like is pretty accurate distance for a 6 or 7 year old...I can start drawing up a rough estimate of what I want the course to look like.

[Lihu]

This is good stuff right here, I'm starting to narrow the yardage down a little bit with your guy's help. Once I get what I feel like is pretty accurate distance for a 6 or 7 year old...I can start drawing up a rough estimate of what I want the course to look like.

Cool stuff. Do you live on a farm or large property?

BTW, check out this 18 hole par 3 course in Arcadia: http://www.americangolf.com/arcadia-golf-course

Kids are here all the time, they make money hand over fist.

[flopster]

My 7 year old daughter would hit her drive right at 100 yards

[Pretzel]

This is good stuff right here, I'm starting to narrow the yardage down a little bit with your guy's help. Once I get what I feel like is pretty accurate distance for a 6 or 7 year old...I can start drawing up a rough estimate of what I want the course to look like.

One thing to consider is to maybe have one course of the longer range (250-300 yard par 4's for the older kids) but have it playable from staggered teeboxes. Set it up so that you can tuck a teebox for the smallest kids off behind a tree or bunker, or on top of a hill on the side of a fairway. This way you can cater to them all and, with careful design work from 100 yards and in, set up a fun and engaging challenge for those of all skill and distance levels.

[Crim]

Cool stuff. Do you live on a farm or large property?

BTW, check out this 18 hole par 3 course in Arcadia: http://www.americangolf.com/arcadia-golf-course

Kids are here all the time, they make money hand over fist.

I wish I had a large property in hand :(

This whole idea is more like a 5 to 10 year plan. Once I can get the course lined up and designed on paper I can figure out how many acres I need, and from there I can start searching the area (Twin Cities) for a decent deal. Paying for it is going to be a problem, but I'm going to look into sponsorship options and other things. I have no idea how to start my own business but I feel I have a decent head on my shoulders and if anything it will be a great learning experience.

That Arcadia course is pretty cool, I've mostly decided on a 9 hole, young kids may even have a tough time getting through 9 holes so everything is up in the air at the moment. I'm not looking to make a ton of money, I just want to get into something I'm passionate about and hopefully don't end up with a ton of debt :)

So if you guys have any other thoughts and ideas for me, I'll gladly take them :D

My 7 year old daughter would hit her drive right at 100 yards

THANK YOU!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pretzel

One thing to consider is to maybe have one course of the longer range (250-300 yard par 4's for the older kids) but have it playable from staggered teeboxes. Set it up so that you can tuck a teebox for the smallest kids off behind a tree or bunker, or on top of a hill on the side of a fairway. This way you can cater to them all and, with careful design work from 100 yards and in, set up a fun and engaging challenge for those of all skill and distance levels.

A 300 yard hole for the older kids would be awesome, but sadly with limited income I'll be looking for a relatively small plot of land....no too small...but perhaps too small for a 300 yard hole. We'll see though, like I said, everything up in the air.

[Crim]

Here's the yardages I'm kind of looking at for each hole. ROUGH estimate.

Par 3 - 60 to 90 yards

Par 4 - 120 to 150 yards

Par 5 - 160 to 200 yards

Yes I know some 7 year olds can hit 150+ yard drives...but I feel like they are the exception to the rule. Most 6 or 7 year olds are going to be shanking all over the place. And if anything a great 7 year old will be able to drive onto the green on a par 4 for eagle

Let me know what you think. Would you bring your kid to a place like this? Would you play with him/her using your wedge/short irons?

[Lihu]

Here's the yardages I'm kind of looking at for each hole. ROUGH estimate.  Par 3 - 60 to 90 yards Par 4 - 120 to 150 yards Par 5 - 160 to 200 yards Yes I know some 7 year olds can hit 150+ yard drives...but I feel like they are the exception to the rule. Most 6 or 7 year olds are going to be shanking all over the place. And if anything a great 7 year old will be able to drive onto the green on a par 4 for eagle :banana:   Let me know what you think. Would you bring your kid to a place like this? Would you play with him/her using your wedge/short irons?

This seems reasonable. Maybe, you can change the par ratings as the kids get older. So, a 12+ year old would be using these holes as par 3. If you have a 300 yard real distance ball driving range that would make it complete. The Arcadia golf course is exactly like the course your are describing, except that you have a 200 yard hole for those long par 3. The course is always crowded from 2:00pm till 10:00pm. It's lit at night. They have $7 after 8:00pm rounds, $10-100 ball buckets for the adults. Normal rates are $12 to $15 for the course, and people pay it. A lot of people would rather go here than to our local 9 hole courses, which charge only $15 and $7.50 to $9.00 for after 3:00pm. To prevent wear on the tee boxes, they have a cement tee box with a driving range mat on it. I would take my kids and go myself to this proposed course. Especially, if I treat your par 5 like a par 3. This would actually present a challenge. What I sometimes do at Arcadia is drive a bunch of balls then go on the course. It's like playing 18 holes as far as the strokes are concerned, and it's lit so people often go after work. Sounds really cool.

[Crim]

^^

Because of lack of acreage I was thinking about getting a few golf nets and mats for the kids to warm up and get some practice swings in. A 300 yard driving range would be amazing...but probably not in the cards at this point. Good info!

[MS256]

Here's the yardages I'm kind of looking at for each hole. ROUGH estimate.

Par 3 - 60 to 90 yards

Par 4 - 120 to 150 yards

Par 5 - 160 to 200 yards

Yes I know some 7 year olds can hit 150+ yard drives...but I feel like they are the exception to the rule. Most 6 or 7 year olds are going to be shanking all over the place. And if anything a great 7 year old will be able to drive onto the green on a par 4 for eagle

Let me know what you think. Would you bring your kid to a place like this? Would you play with him/her using your wedge/short irons?

I know you are looking for a limited market. The hardest decision for me would be just how limited I would want to go. The smaller the course and the shorter the holes the more limited the market. Any course is still going to require a greens mower, a fairway unit, and something to mow the rough with. There would be some savings on fuel and equipment maintenance with a smaller area and less initial land cost so the task would be to figure whether those savings would offset market limitations and then finding the right balance.

Whether it would work or not depends on where you are. It wouldn't stand a chance around here but this isn't exactly a golf hotbed, the courses are largely empty, and it's no problem for parents to take their kids to the empty courses they are playing now.

The exception would be if an instructor worked out a deal with the many summer camps around here where the camp kips would get playing lessons. That would be a win/win for both the camps and the golf course. If the instruction was good enough that business could explode into something big.

[Crim]

I know you are looking for a limited market. The hardest decision for me would be just how limited I would want to go. The smaller the course and the shorter the holes the more limited the market. Any course is still going to require a greens mower, a fairway unit, and something to mow the rough with. There would be some savings on fuel and equipment maintenance with a smaller area and less initial land cost so the task would be to figure whether those savings would offset market limitations and then finding the right balance.

Whether it would work or not depends on where you are. It wouldn't stand a chance around here but this isn't exactly a golf hotbed, the courses are largely empty, and it's no problem for parents to take their kids to the empty courses they are playing now.

The exception would be if an instructor worked out a deal with the many summer camps around here where the camp kips would get playing lessons. That would be a win/win for both the camps and the golf course. If the instruction was good enough that business could explode into something big.

Yeah the market is limited, but I feel like if the course is beautiful enough the parents might just be the one's wanting to drag their kids back and have a fun afternoon with them. But yes finding the right balance with cost is going to be the toughest part, I'm not exactly a businessman. I work in television and know a bit about marketing. Other than that, I'll be talking to my friend who runs his own golf course a lot.

I'm in the Minneapolis area, if the course is nice I could bring in a lot of people, however I'm looking at varied weather and nothing during the winter season. That's going to be harsh.

Instructor would be awesome and something I'm definitely going to look into.

[Lihu]

Yeah the market is limited, but I feel like if the course is beautiful enough the parents might just be the one's wanting to drag their kids back and have a fun afternoon with them. But yes finding the right balance with cost is going to be the toughest part, I'm not exactly a businessman. I work in television and know a bit about marketing. Other than that, I'll be talking to my friend who runs his own golf course a lot.

I'm in the Minneapolis area, if the course is nice I could bring in a lot of people, however I'm looking at varied weather and nothing during the winter season. That's going to be harsh.

Instructor would be awesome and something I'm definitely going to look into.

We have an instructor here that has a calm soothing voice, that might be just the thing.

Include an indoor facility for night time and winter might be the key? You can use the 5SK guys model in Erie PA for that, and the Arcadia 18 hole par 3 for the summer model?

Even in MN, it seems like this venture will cost you quite a bit of $$$?

What is the number of golfers in the twin cities area? Would this do something to increase it?

[Crim]

Even in MN, it seems like this venture will cost you quite a bit of $$$?

What is the number of golfers in the twin cities area? Would this do something to increase it?

I assume it will be VERY expensive. However I've just been looking at acres in the area and I've found a couple really good prices. Not great, but good. If I keep my eye open over the next 5 years maybe, just maybe I can find the perfect plot of land in just the right spot.

I read somewhere the other day that Minnesota more than any other state is in need of golf courses. Now that could be an old article and I could have misread it. But it's something I'm looking into. Golf is pretty big around here it seems. And I'm hoping the Ryder Cup being at Hazeltine in 2016 will really bring in some more Minnesotans to the game. I don't know if a small course dedicated to beginning golfers would increase the number of golfers in the Twin Cities, but hey, could be worth a shot.

As far as winter goes, there's a few nice indoor facilities in the area. I just signed up for one that is top notch. I don't know if I can compete with these guys. I'd probably need to look at other venues of revenue in the off-season....

[Lihu]

Originally Posted by Crim

I read somewhere the other day that Minnesota more than any other state is in need of golf courses. Now that could be an old article and I could have misread it. But it's something I'm looking into. Golf is pretty big around here it seems. And I'm hoping the Ryder Cup being at Hazeltine in 2016 will really bring in some more Minnesotans to the game. I don't know if a small course dedicated to beginning golfers would increase the number of golfers in the Twin Cities, but hey, could be worth a shot.

Interesting facts. Sounds like a good idea.

Most of the people I know from MN are very practical types, they would see no point in hitting a little white ball into a hole. Then again, that's the way I felt 3 years ago

[Wisguy]

I know from helping with the "junior golf league" at my local course that any kid over 7 is likely to hit their driver/fairway wood (often one and the same in kids' sets) around 150 yards or more if they're older. By age 12 there's usually 2-3 of the boys who just try to cream it and will occasionally knock one out there to 250, but they're usually inaccurate. However, from ages 3-5 you'll see big swings and big misses mostly. When they do make solid contact it will go a little ways, but not too far.

One other thing to note for kids in the 7-10 year old range: They hit a 7-iron and a fairway wood pretty close to the same distance up to a point. A lot of the kids will hit their fairway woods around 150 and their 7-iron 125. My guess it has everything to do with quality of contact, just since a 7-iron is a much more forgiving club especially when hit from the ground. As far as wedges goes it can depend greatly upon technique. Some kids think that they're supposed to deloft their wedges in the swing, since people told them to do that for chips, and hit it as far as a short iron and other can scoop it and end up with it going nowhere.

Here's what I would call a general "yardage chart" based on age groups.

3-5 years - ~50-100 with fairway wood, maybe 30 with iron, and around 15 for a wedge. Highly inconsistent contact, often only going 10 yards or less with any club

6-8 years - ~125-175 with fairway wood, probably about 75-100 with an iron, and around 50-75 for a wedge. Contact more consistent and kids getting bigger

9-10 years - ~150-200 with fairway wood, somewhere in the range of 100-125 for an iron, and likely 75-100 for a wedge. Some kids in this age group will excel and be able to beat you with a stellar short game to compensate for lost distance. You also may get a couple kids who play terribly because the only thing they care about is how far they can hit it.

I think this could possibly apply to a) golf prodigies; b) who are hitting golf balls 4 or more times a week all summer long; and c) these figures are their best shots of the week.  For normal kids getting into golf who play once or twice a week, these figures are grossly exaggerated - 6 to 8 year olds are hitting fairway woods maybe 50 to 110 yards, wedges maybe 30-40 yards.  A 9 year old hitting a 200 yard fairway wood??  Come on - the majority of higher handicap adult golfers I see aren't getting over 200 yards with their fairway woods more than about 40-50% of the time.  I think this is yet another case of the internet adding 20-50 yards onto claimed shot lengths.

This was the third summer that my daughter has been playing golf, the second season with lessons, and she was hitting as long as any of the boys her size in several municipal golf lessons and leagues, as well as in the First Tee program (she is tall for her age - around 90th percentile). This summer, at age 7, my daughter hit a 75 yard hybrid tee shot on a 165 yard hole, which went 80 yards farther than my tee shot (which came off the toe, hit a post, then went backwards, settling behind a tree 5 yards behind and to the left of the tee box).  She then overshot the green by 3 feet into the fringe with her second shot (I figure a 100 yard shot), chipped on, two putted and made a 5, legitimately beating me by two strokes after I had to take an unplayable lie.  That was her best hole ever and she has reminded me of our scores on that hole more than once since then.  I think she's hit one or two other shots in the nearly 100 yard range.  The summer before, she had an 85 yard 7-iron that just had the purest-sounding click off the clubface a kid's club can produce.

In a local kids golf league run by our municipality this spring, they had kids from about 6 to 13 playing and one of the assistants (a girl on the high school golf team) told me my daughter was hitting longer than some of the 10-12 year olds.  I watched their fivesome play a few holes and that was clearly a matter of my daughter having a smoother swing and making better contact than the older girls, not a matter of strength.

[Crim]

I think this could possibly apply to a) golf prodigies; b) who are hitting golf balls 4 or more times a week all summer long; and c) these figures are their best shots of the week.  For normal kids getting into golf who play once or twice a week, these figures are grossly exaggerated - 6 to 8 year olds are hitting fairway woods maybe 50 to 110 yards, wedges maybe 30-40 yards.  A 9 year old hitting a 200 yard fairway wood??  Come on - the majority of higher handicap adult golfers I see aren't getting over 200 yards with their fairway woods more than about 40-50% of the time.

This was the third summer that my daughter has been playing golf, the second season with lessons, and she was hitting as long as any of the boys her size in several municipal golf lessons and leagues, as well as in the First Tee program (she is tall for her age - around 90th percentile). This summer, at age 7, my daughter hit a 75 yard hybrid tee shot on a 165 yard hole, which went 80 yards farther than my tee shot (which came off the toe, hit a post, then went backwards, settling behind a tree 5 yards behind and to the left of the tee box).  She then overshot the green by 3 feet into the fringe with her second shot (I figure a 100 yard shot), chipped on, two putted and made a 5, legitimately beating me by two strokes after I had to take an unplayable lie.  That was her best hole ever and she has reminded me of our scores on that hole more than once since then.  I think she's hit one or two other shots in the nearly 100 yard range.  The summer before, she had an 85 yard 7-iron that just had the purest-sounding click off the clubface a kid's club can produce.

In a local kids golf league run by our municipality this spring, they had kids from about 6 to 13 playing and one of the assistants (a girl on the high school golf team) told me my daughter was hitting longer than some of the 10-12 year olds.  I watched their fivesome play a few holes and that was clearly a matter of my daughter having a smoother swing and making better contact than the older girls, not a matter of strength.

1st paragraph - That's what I figured, majority of the kids coming to the course won't be able to hit the ball very far.

2nd and 3rd paragraph - Holy crap, your daughter is getting really good!

Question - Do you think your daughter would enjoy a course with these specifications?

Par 3 - 60 to 90 yards

Par 4 - 120 to 150 yards

Par 5 - 160 to 200 yards

Is there anything that you would change that would maybe specify to her age more? Would you play the course with her if well made?

[Lihu]

I think this could possibly apply to a) golf prodigies; b) who are hitting golf balls 4 or more times a week all summer long; and c) these figures are their best shots of the week.  For normal kids getting into golf who play once or twice a week, these figures are grossly exaggerated - 6 to 8 year olds are hitting fairway woods maybe 50 to 110 yards, wedges maybe 30-40 yards.  A 9 year old hitting a 200 yard fairway wood??  Come on - the majority of higher handicap adult golfers I see aren't getting over 200 yards with their fairway woods more than about 40-50% of the time.

Many of the "first tee" kids in "birdie" or above play 4 times a week, classes for 2 days and "fun" rounds twice a week. The average 7 year old kids drive (with a kids driver) about 150. By 11 years, boys can usually drive 200 yards. My Daughter (12) drives 190 (carry and roll), son (13) drives 240 (carry and roll) with a 3W and has a 95mph swing. They are only a little above average in driving distances for kids who play consistently.

I agree that the "par" class kids are very erratic, but some of them started only one season. The higher "birdie"/league kids usually hit much more consistently because they are typically kids who have played more than 3 years.

One of the kids I know should have been in "eagle" at 12. He is an exception .