• Announcements

    • iacas

      Visit FlagstickRule.com   03/13/2017

      Visit the site flagstickrule.com to read about and sign a petition for the USGA/R&A regarding the one terrible rule in the proposed "modernized" rules for 2019.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
arturo28mx

Importance of driver lie angle

10 posts in this topic

I have read numerous articles that say that driver lie angle is not important because the face is so upright (as opposed to high lofted irons where lie angle matters a lot).

However,

1. Some OEMs offer drivers that have adjustable lie angles

2. When I set my Titleist 913 D2 driver to a 0.75 degree more upright lie angle I got considerably straighter and longer shots. I know other people have obtained similar improvements in this setting.

So, I am confused, does driver lie angle matter or not? and why?

Please help me understand.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

It doesn't really apply to drivers! A too flat iron would hit the ground toe first, causing the shot to go right, vice versa with a too up right iron, a driver doesn't really contact the ground, with this in mind, is it a good idea to get fairway woods built at a correct length to give the correct lie??
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In short irons, proper fitting of lie angle is important even if the club does not contact the ground. it's more of a geometry thing. see this video

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't really apply to drivers! A too flat iron would hit the ground toe first, causing the shot to go right, vice versa with a too up right iron, a driver doesn't really contact the ground, with this in mind, is it a good idea to get fairway woods built at a correct length to give the correct lie??

Can you explain how this would happen?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Can you explain how this would happen?

Well,... And I could be wrong, but, as you impact the ball, the club head will then impact the ground slightly, maybe leave a divot, if the club head is to flat at impact, the toe of the club may hit the ground first causing the face to twist to the right, thus sending your ball to the right? And if the club head is too upright, the heel would hit the ground immediately after impact, causing the head to twist left slightly, thus causing the ball to fly left slightly! This is how I had it explained to me by a fitter and I thought it made perfect sense! Whereas a driver doesn't contact the ground at all so the lie isn't as important on a driver? Capiche??

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well,... And I could be wrong, but, as you impact the ball, the club head will then impact the ground slightly, maybe leave a divot, if the club head is to flat at impact, the toe of the club may hit the ground first causing the face to twist to the right, thus sending your ball to the right? And if the club head is too upright, the heel would hit the ground immediately after impact, causing the head to twist left slightly, thus causing the ball to fly left slightly!

This is how I had it explained to me by a fitter and I thought it made perfect sense!

Whereas a driver doesn't contact the ground at all so the lie isn't as important on a driver?

Capiche??

I had always thought on a well struck iron shot the divot would be after (target side) of the ball.  The club would not touch the ground until after the ball was gone.

I am not saying a toe down club does not make the ball go right (I really do not know), just that I doubt it has to do with the club opening or closing due to contact with the ground.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Well maybe your correct, on the view of a well struck shot, but as the fitter was talking to me, (a 20 hacker, I mean handicapper) he could also be correct, I think the video posted above pretty much nails it, although there was no mention of driver?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have read numerous articles that say that driver lie angle is not important because the face is so upright (as opposed to high lofted irons where lie angle matters a lot).

However,

1. Some OEMs offer drivers that have adjustable lie angles

2. When I set my Titleist 913 D2 driver to a 0.75 degree more upright lie angle I got considerably straighter and longer shots. I know other people have obtained similar improvements in this setting.

So, I am confused, does driver lie angle matter or not? and why?

Please help me understand.

Yes, it matters.  It shifts the baseline of the shot a little bit one way or the other.  It's definitely less than higher lofted clubs, but on any club more than zero degrees loft, it has some effect.  See below.

A too flat iron would hit the ground toe first, causing the shot to go right,

Yeah, but's not really anything to do with the contact with the ground, it's fact that the club is now pointed a different direction.  Try to imagine an arrow coming out of the club that is exactly perpendicular to the face of the club (picture an 8 or 9 iron).  When the club is sitting on the ground perfectly level, if you stand behind it, the arrow will be pointing directly at the target.  Now, if you just raise the handle of the club up, such that only the toe of the club is on the ground, can you see how that arrow would now be pointing to the right of the target?  The opposite is, obviously, that if you drop the handle down, and only the heel is on the ground, the arrow is now pointing well to the left of the target.

The same is true for a driver, but it's a lot more subtle, simply because the angles change a lot less due to so much less loft in the club.

EDIT:  I'm such a know-it-all idiot ... I should have just watched arturo's video.  What he explains (much better than me) from 1:28 on, is exactly what I was trying to convey.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64131/effects-of-lie-angle-on-varying-degrees-of-loft

For lower lofted clubs, not as much as you think.

Lets say you take a 10 Degree driver and change its lie by 1 degree. For a 200 yard drive the ball will only be left or right (depending on lie change) 0.62 yards + 0.25 yards curve. So you are talking less than  1 yard left or right.

If you take a 45 degree wedge, and have 1 degree change, for a 125 yard shot you are looking at 2.2 yards + 0.87 yards curve, so 3 yards left or right. You can see that lie angle matters more for higher lofted clubs.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Yes, it matters.  It shifts the baseline of the shot a little bit one way or the other.  It's definitely less than higher lofted clubs, but on any club more than zero degrees loft, it has some effect.

Lets say you take a 10 Degree driver and change its lie by 1 degree. For a 200 yard drive the ball will only be left or right (depending on lie change) 0.62 yards + 0.25 yards curve. So you are talking less than  1 yard left or right.

LOL.  I guess I could argue that < 1 yard is still, technically, "some" effect, however, that's grasping at straws.  Bottom line is OP should disregard everything I wrote except ...

I'm such a know-it-all idiot

:doh:

Now, excuse me while I graciously exit this thread.  (By graciously, I mean I certainly tripped over something on the way out)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2017 TST Partners

    PING Golf
    Leupold Golf
    Snell Golf
    Talamore Golf Resort
    Lowest Score Wins
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • Exactly. Unfortunately, we had a ringside seat to just such a thing yesterday.  The group ahead of us had finally made it to the green on 3.  One was in a green side bunker, while the others were on the green itself.  I asked my buddy, blade or chunk, as we watched from 60 yards out.  He said he'd leave it in the bunker.  I won.  Hard blade 30 yards over the green.  The remainder of the group WAITED while he raked the bunker and then walked completely across the green and proceeded to chip all the way back, almost dumping it in the same bunker again.  Again, Larry, Moe, and Curly wait for Bunker Boy to meander back and play his shot before playing theirs.  After all, he was away...   3 more swings and he was finally in the hole.  Total elapsed time that group took from when they reached the green, nearly 15 minutes!   We caught them on the next tee box in time to watch two of them knock it into the junk short of the fairway.  When it became obvious that they had no intention of acknowledging us, we politely asked if we could play through while they searched for their balls, and thankfully they agreed.   3 hours later, as we were teeing off on 18, we saw them driving up to the tee box on 12.  Not good golfers, true, but more than anything, they simply didn't move with any sense of purpose, or efficiency.  If we'd have had to play behind them much longer, I would have cut my own throat with my wedge!  
    • I love watching those shows on the golf channel.  Especially Michael Breed.   But, ultimately, it's not really personalized instruction, so you don't really get too much instruction from it.   Maybe a swing thought idea here and there, and some short game drills to work on.  As a matter of fact, I think a long while ago, I learned how to hit out of the sand from the golf channel.  That is still, to this day, the one skill I gain strokes on all of my friends at.   (unfortunately, I imagine bunker shots are like a SV (-8), given that I have like 1 per round.  tops.) But, it's still quite enjoyable nonetheless.   It's always fun to listen to people talk about the golf swing.  If your'e in to that kinda thing.  
    • Thing is that I don't consider myself a poor putter. I played a tournament on one of the nicest courses in our country yesterday. Probably the fastest greens and they kept getting faster as the sun was shining yesterday (I was told that by a friend in my flight that finished with a 76).  I had 38 putts on 17 holes. I had 5 3 putts. 2 of those 3 putts came on the first 2 holes. And I was rarely inside 10 feet for the first putt. In a round of 101 over 17 holes (had ESC on one par 5 where I picked the ball up) 38 putts were pretty decent. 
    • I carry 4 wedges right now...

      PW - 122 Yards (Max)  115 Yards (90%)
      AW - 107 Yards (Max)  100 Yards (90%)
      54° - 95 Yards (Max)  85 Yards (90%)
      58° - 80 Yards (Max)  75 Yards (90%)

      Inside of 100 yards... it really depends a lot on my lie and where the flag is located.  I like to play a lower flight with my 54° when a pin is back... but I prefer a higher shot with my 58° when a pin is up front.  

      I'm inconsistent (at best) when I get inside 70 yards.  I've tried the 'clock' system with my arms, but I find that if I pay too much attention to my arms, I forget to move my lower body and that leads to some really, really bad results. 

      CY
    • My 60 is good up to about 75-80 yards mostly 56 is good up to around 100 50 is good up to about 125 ish PW is good up to about 135-140  Of course the are all to be taken with a grain of salt because my swing is pretty junk so these are expected distances on good strikes which do not happen as often as I like. Most of the time I prefer to fall a bit short of my target as opposed to long as the courses around here tend have harder ground and/or more trouble long of the green.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Isaac03
      Isaac03
      (33 years old)
    2. phillyk
      phillyk
      (27 years old)
    3. PhishAreFriends
      PhishAreFriends
      (27 years old)
  • Get Great Gear with Amazon