Importance of driver lie angle

[arturo28mx]

I have read numerous articles that say that driver lie angle is not important because the face is so upright (as opposed to high lofted irons where lie angle matters a lot).

However,

1. Some OEMs offer drivers that have adjustable lie angles

2. When I set my Titleist 913 D2 driver to a 0.75 degree more upright lie angle I got considerably straighter and longer shots. I know other people have obtained similar improvements in this setting.

So, I am confused, does driver lie angle matter or not? and why?

Please help me understand.

[Hardballs]

It doesn't really apply to drivers! A too flat iron would hit the ground toe first, causing the shot to go right, vice versa with a too up right iron, a driver doesn't really contact the ground, with this in mind, is it a good idea to get fairway woods built at a correct length to give the correct lie??

[arturo28mx]

In short irons, proper fitting of lie angle is important even if the club does not contact the ground. it's more of a geometry thing. see this video

[14ledo81]

It doesn't really apply to drivers! A too flat iron would hit the ground toe first, causing the shot to go right, vice versa with a too up right iron, a driver doesn't really contact the ground, with this in mind, is it a good idea to get fairway woods built at a correct length to give the correct lie??

Can you explain how this would happen?

[Hardballs]

Can you explain how this would happen?

Well,... And I could be wrong, but, as you impact the ball, the club head will then impact the ground slightly, maybe leave a divot, if the club head is to flat at impact, the toe of the club may hit the ground first causing the face to twist to the right, thus sending your ball to the right? And if the club head is too upright, the heel would hit the ground immediately after impact, causing the head to twist left slightly, thus causing the ball to fly left slightly! This is how I had it explained to me by a fitter and I thought it made perfect sense! Whereas a driver doesn't contact the ground at all so the lie isn't as important on a driver? Capiche??

[14ledo81]

Well,... And I could be wrong, but, as you impact the ball, the club head will then impact the ground slightly, maybe leave a divot, if the club head is to flat at impact, the toe of the club may hit the ground first causing the face to twist to the right, thus sending your ball to the right? And if the club head is too upright, the heel would hit the ground immediately after impact, causing the head to twist left slightly, thus causing the ball to fly left slightly!

This is how I had it explained to me by a fitter and I thought it made perfect sense!

Whereas a driver doesn't contact the ground at all so the lie isn't as important on a driver?

Capiche??

I had always thought on a well struck iron shot the divot would be after (target side) of the ball.  The club would not touch the ground until after the ball was gone.

I am not saying a toe down club does not make the ball go right (I really do not know), just that I doubt it has to do with the club opening or closing due to contact with the ground.

[Hardballs]

Well maybe your correct, on the view of a well struck shot, but as the fitter was talking to me, (a 20 hacker, I mean handicapper) he could also be correct, I think the video posted above pretty much nails it, although there was no mention of driver?

[Golfingdad]

I have read numerous articles that say that driver lie angle is not important because the face is so upright (as opposed to high lofted irons where lie angle matters a lot).

However,

1. Some OEMs offer drivers that have adjustable lie angles

2. When I set my Titleist 913 D2 driver to a 0.75 degree more upright lie angle I got considerably straighter and longer shots. I know other people have obtained similar improvements in this setting.

So, I am confused, does driver lie angle matter or not? and why?

Please help me understand.

Yes, it matters.  It shifts the baseline of the shot a little bit one way or the other.  It's definitely less than higher lofted clubs, but on any club more than zero degrees loft, it has some effect.  See below.

A too flat iron would hit the ground toe first, causing the shot to go right,

Yeah, but's not really anything to do with the contact with the ground, it's fact that the club is now pointed a different direction.  Try to imagine an arrow coming out of the club that is exactly perpendicular to the face of the club (picture an 8 or 9 iron).  When the club is sitting on the ground perfectly level, if you stand behind it, the arrow will be pointing directly at the target.  Now, if you just raise the handle of the club up, such that only the toe of the club is on the ground, can you see how that arrow would now be pointing to the right of the target?  The opposite is, obviously, that if you drop the handle down, and only the heel is on the ground, the arrow is now pointing well to the left of the target.

The same is true for a driver, but it's a lot more subtle, simply because the angles change a lot less due to so much less loft in the club.

EDIT:  I'm such a know-it-all idiot ... I should have just watched arturo's video.  What he explains (much better than me) from 1:28 on, is exactly what I was trying to convey.

[saevel25]

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64131/effects-of-lie-angle-on-varying-degrees-of-loft

For lower lofted clubs, not as much as you think.

Lets say you take a 10 Degree driver and change its lie by 1 degree. For a 200 yard drive the ball will only be left or right (depending on lie change) 0.62 yards + 0.25 yards curve. So you are talking less than  1 yard left or right.

If you take a 45 degree wedge, and have 1 degree change, for a 125 yard shot you are looking at 2.2 yards + 0.87 yards curve, so 3 yards left or right. You can see that lie angle matters more for higher lofted clubs.

[Golfingdad]

Yes, it matters.  It shifts the baseline of the shot a little bit one way or the other.  It's definitely less than higher lofted clubs, but on any club more than zero degrees loft, it has some effect.

Lets say you take a 10 Degree driver and change its lie by 1 degree. For a 200 yard drive the ball will only be left or right (depending on lie change) 0.62 yards + 0.25 yards curve. So you are talking less than  1 yard left or right.

LOL.  I guess I could argue that

I'm such a know-it-all idiot

Now, excuse me while I graciously exit this thread.  (By graciously, I mean I certainly tripped over something on the way out)