Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 3863 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted

Uh oh. Poor move by a NATO country. Shows the NATO alliance is lacking in strong leadership. Putin will not be pleased. 

Also begs the question, whose side is Turkey on anyway in the fight against ISIS?

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

The problem is the sides change depending on the country.  In Syria we're not sure whose side we're on as neither ISIS or Assad are great options for us.  Russia clearly supports Assad so Turkey either supports ISIS or just doesn't like Russia flying close to their airspace. 

Joe Paradiso

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
3 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

The problem is the sides change depending on the country.  In Syria we're not sure whose side we're on as neither ISIS or Assad are great options for us.  Russia clearly supports Assad so Turkey either supports ISIS or just doesn't like Russia flying close to their airspace. 

That is a bold move by Turkey since they can't defend themselves on a large scale from Russia without NATO help. They didn't consult NATO allies first, or NATO is prepared to go to war with Russia, which I doubt. 

Turkey is like your short friend who picks a fight at the bar with the biggest guy there. 

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 minute ago, Braivo said:

That is a bold move by Turkey since they can't defend themselves on a large scale from Russia without NATO help. They didn't consult NATO allies first, or NATO is prepared to go to war with Russia, which I doubt. 

Turkey is like your short friend who picks a fight at the bar with the biggest guy there. 

The thing is, do you have to consult your NATO allies before defending your sovereign airspace?  Would we be expected to pick up the phone and call Turkey and the rest and ask permission to protect our airspace?  I can't say that I disagree with Turkey doing what they did.  Russia loves to push edges (borders) looking for a reaction.  Well this time they got one!  

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 minute ago, Gator Hazard said:

The thing is, do you have to consult your NATO allies before defending your sovereign airspace?  Would we be expected to pick up the phone and call Turkey and the rest and ask permission to protect our airspace?  I can't say that I disagree with Turkey doing what they did.  Russia loves to push edges (borders) looking for a reaction.  Well this time they got one!  

The difference is the US does not rely on Turkey to defend ourselves. Turkey relies on us. 

Yeah, they might get a bigger reaction than they bargained for. Then what? They have to go to NATO. Hence, you consult them first before you do something rash. They weren't being attacked by Russia. 

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Just now, Braivo said:

The difference is the US does not rely on Turkey to defend ourselves. Turkey relies on us. 

Yeah, they might get a bigger reaction than they bargained for. Then what? They have to go to NATO. Hence, you consult them first before you do something rash. They weren't being attacked by Russia. 

My point is that there is not enough time to consult NATO while a fighter jet is in your sovereign airspace.  You can't exactly call a meeting, have tea and a pipe and lively debate on what you should do with the enemy aircraft that just crossed into your borders (and knowing Russia I am sure this was not the first time). Turkey warned the plane 10 times in 5 minutes, they are far more patient than I would have been were I in command, I'm more of a three strikes and you get a sidewinder up the tailpipe kinda guy.  

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
4 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

My point is that there is not enough time to consult NATO while a fighter jet is in your sovereign airspace.  You can't exactly call a meeting, have tea and a pipe and lively debate on what you should do with the enemy aircraft that just crossed into your borders (and knowing Russia I am sure this was not the first time). Turkey warned the plane 10 times in 5 minutes, they are far more patient than I would have been were I in command, I'm more of a three strikes and you get a sidewinder up the tailpipe kinda guy.  

This is short-term thinking. They were not threatening Turkey. 

When the bully that is twice your size wants your lunch money, you give him your lunch money. Then you go talk to your big brother about it and work out a plan. 

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

It is not short term thinking and is the expected outcome of any foreign plane, especially a plane of war crossing over into your airspace.  A country's first priority is protecting its citizens and from immediate danger.  I get what you are trying to say, because Russia is bigger and stronger but that doesn't make what they did wrong.  They did the right thing.  They cannot know that Russia is not going to bomb or strafe a village on their side of the border without any authorization or agreement from Turkey.  Nope, they got what they had coming to them.  This is a lesson in professional courtesy at the larger scale.  Turkey informed them that they need to abide by international laws and did what they were supposed to do.

 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I'd guess Turkey wanted Russia that they were violating their air space and if they continued Turkey would retaliate.  I find it hard to believe a Russian fighter jet got near or in their air space and Turkey just shot it down without any previous warnings.

Joe Paradiso

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Just now, newtogolf said:

I'd guess Turkey wanted Russia that they were violating their air space and if they continued Turkey would retaliate.  I find it hard to believe a Russian fighter jet got near or in their air space and Turkey just shot it down without any previous warnings.

Russia does this all the time.  If you look around you can find all sorts of news reports (and these are just the reported instances) of Russian jets, Russian Bombers and Russian naval vessels crossing over into other's territory.  We ourselves have had several of these types of instances with Russia over Alaska and up in Canada as well.  They hailed the fighter jet and warned them 10 times.  They were quite courteous and polite and gave them every opportunity to fly away.  You cannot warn someone and then not do anything after that amount of time.  Why even have an air force or any military if that is the case right?

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
4 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

It is not short term thinking and is the expected outcome of any foreign plane, especially a plane of war crossing over into your airspace.  A country's first priority is protecting its citizens and from immediate danger.  I get what you are trying to say, because Russia is bigger and stronger but that doesn't make what they did wrong.  They did the right thing.  They cannot know that Russia is not going to bomb or strafe a village on their side of the border without any authorization or agreement from Turkey.  Nope, they got what they had coming to them.  This is a lesson in professional courtesy at the larger scale.  Turkey informed them that they need to abide by international laws and did what they were supposed to do.

 

Putin is a master chess player. He put out the bait and they took it. It was a win-win for him. If they shoot the plane down he can now puff his chest and get national support (in Russia) for his initiatives and put NATO on the defensive. If they didn't shoot it down then he knows he can push Turkey around. He has the advantage of being on the offensive.  

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
37 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

The problem is the sides change depending on the country.  In Syria we're not sure whose side we're on as neither ISIS or Assad are great options for us.  Russia clearly supports Assad so Turkey either supports ISIS or just doesn't like Russia flying close to their airspace. 

 

I think the article mentioned that the rebels in Syria are supported by Al Quaida? The Russians clearly do not want more terrorists in that region so they support Assad?

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
5 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

Russia does this all the time.  If you look around you can find all sorts of news reports (and these are just the reported instances) of Russian jets, Russian Bombers and Russian naval vessels crossing over into other's territory.  We ourselves have had several of these types of instances with Russia over Alaska and up in Canada as well.  They hailed the fighter jet and warned them 10 times.  They were quite courteous and polite and gave them every opportunity to fly away.  You cannot warn someone and then not do anything after that amount of time.  Why even have an air force or any military if that is the case right?

Turns out the jet was shot down over Syria, the pilots ejected and were killed by terrorists. 

The Western powers will do anything they can to avoid starting WWIII. This may mean that Turkey is on its own. 

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

 

I think the article mentioned that the rebels in Syria are supported by Al Quaida? The Russians clearly do not want more terrorists in that region so they support Assad?

Russia and China supported Assad long before ISIS was even called ISIS

Joe Paradiso

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 minute ago, Braivo said:

Putin is a master chess player. He put out the bait and they took it. It was a win-win for him. If they shoot the plane down he can now puff his chest and get national support (in Russia) for his initiatives and put NATO on the defensive. If they didn't shoot it down then he knows he can push Turkey around. He has the advantage of being on the offensive.  

I could care less what support he gets at home.  Putin is putting the USS back in the R, has been for a long time.  Putin doesn't take NATO or the US seriously anymore and has been owning us on foreign policy.  He has no respect for the west since Obama took office (sorry, but that is just the plain old truth).

20 minutes ago, Lihu said:

 

I think the article mentioned that the rebels in Syria are supported by Al Quaida? The Russians clearly do not want more terrorists in that region so they support Assad?

Russia has always supported Assad

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
2 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

I could care less what support he gets at home.  Putin is putting the USS back in the R, has been for a long time.  Putin doesn't take NATO or the US seriously anymore and has been owning us on foreign policy.  He has no respect for the west since Obama took office (sorry, but that is just the plain old truth).

Yes, that is my point. Putin is testing the alliance. He knows they lack a strong leader. He plays Obama like a fiddle. Even Turkey, if they had respect / fear for the US they would have consulted before engaging Russian jets. 

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
21 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Turns out the jet was shot down over Syria, the pilots ejected and were killed by terrorists. 

The Western powers will do anything they can to avoid starting WWIII. This may mean that Turkey is on its own. 

I have not seen anything yet saying they shot down the plane over Syria.  I have seen that Turkey is providing the Radar path route which proves they crossed over into Turkish National airspace.  They have said they warned the jet 10 times in 5 minutes.  If they fired their missiles and the jet was  hit as it crossed back into Syria that doesn't mean anything.   The latest I have seen is that Russia will be mature and not do anything stupid.  We will see.  Putin should know that when you play games like this, eventually something bad can happen.  If he truly is a chess player he understands the loss of a pawn here and there.   I still agree with what Turkey did based on what I have read.

2 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Yes, that is my point. Putin is testing the alliance. He knows they lack a strong leader. He plays Obama like a fiddle. Even Turkey, if they had respect / fear for the US they would have consulted before engaging Russian jets. 

I don't agree that they would have consulted.  That is kind of like the when seconds matter the police are minutes away.  You don't consult when a war plane is circling over one of your cities or villages, you engage.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 3863 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    Carl's Place
    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • I have been debating getting a launch monitor of some sort, if only so I can re-figure my shot zones (I haven't actually mapped them in years) and also to practice distance wedges at home.  I have to see if this works with either my current setup, or what my setup would be if I move it to the garage.  
    • Day 48, June 23.  After work today, I took 25 minutes in my practice room;  6-iron, same everything as yesterday except the time and count. 
    • Well, this is interesting.  I think we discovered a few months ago that I haven't been following professional golf in a while (my confusion about Scotty's footwork confirmed that), so at least as I aim to follow a bit more I'll get something new to learn with all of you.  My very quick read of Erik's summary makes me think this new Challenger series fits somewhere between Korn Ferry and the Championship (not Champions, but I know I'm going to make that mistake a few times if I'm not careful!).   My recollection is that there were already second-tier events among the PGA Tour;  the Bob Hope didn't have the same quality of field as the event at Riviera (whose current name I forget, although now that I say that, I realize the Palm Springs event hasn't been called the Bob Hope in a few years either).   With the absence of the FedEx (if I'm reading that correctly), does that mean no more FedEx Cup at all? Hopefully I'll have time later in 2026 to sit down and see what we're in for in 2027, where one of my goals already is to follow more professional golf.
    • The highlights as I see them: Championship and Challenger Series The creation of the PGA Tour and the PGB Tour, in the words of Joel Dahmen a few years ago. They're calling them the Championship Series (23-24 events) and the Challenger Series (20+ events). Both run February to August. They feel this will achieve three things: increasing the consistency and quality of fields across the season creating a clear system for players to earn and retain status and delivering a more structured and competitive experience for fans and partners—all in an effort to strengthen meritocracy. Championship Series Structure and Eligibility The 23-24 events includes the Players, majors, season-ending events, and the Presidents Cup and Ryder Cup. These will be 72-hole events with a 36-hole cut to the top 65 and ties and purses of $20M+. 120 players without an alternate list. 90 players (roughly) from the previous year and 20 players promoted from the Challenger Series. Full eligibility will be finalized later this year. Sites (cities) to be finalized soon, but 10 of the 15 courses have already been determined. Postseason: includes retention and relegation and concludes with match play. The Tour Championship will also be played across a rotation of prestigious courses. Challenger Series Structure and Eligibility 20+ events. Running concurrently. Will feature players fighting their way back to the Championship Series or players graduating and on the upswing from the Korn Ferry Tour. Many of these events will be current PGA Tour courses. About 7 of the Challenger Series events will be during off weeks for the Championship Series with elevated purses and visibility. Purses of at least $4M, with cuts similar to the Champ series. 144 player fields. Competitive Fields for Both Series Players will be eligible for only one series at a time: Championship Series Players are not eligible for Challenger Series events. Championship Series members will have a known schedule with all events having the same eligibility. Players and Majors will have their own eligibility criteria. Championship Series players don't have to play all events. This begs the question about, say, the Canadian Open, and other "home-town" events that players might want to play, even if they're Challenger Series events. Will releases be granted? Promotion and Relegation At least 90 players will be retained in the Championship Series, and 20 players will be promoted from the Challenger Series each year. Battlefield promotion for two-time winners from the Challenger Series. Players relegated from the Championship Series will have a "last chance" opportunity to retain status, or will go to the Challenger Series. Criteria will be finalized before the start of the 2027 season. Points System New points system (not FedExCup points). Separate points systems for the Championship and Challenger Series. Elevated points in the Challenger Series for off-weeks on the Championship Series. More details tk. Elevated International Events in the Fall The fall schedule will include a limited series of elevated international events with top players from the Championship Series, with the intent to deliver in partnership with the DP World Tour as part of the Strategic Alliance. Last Chance Series The Tour will develop a “last chance” series of 4-6 events in the fall, with a limited number of spots on the Championship Series available for top finishers. Eligibility will include players relegated from the Championship Series, Challenger Series players, and other categories to be determined. Q-School continues, as do the Korn Ferry Tour and PGA Tour Latinoamerica. Also, Brian Rolapp is the new commissioner as of January 1, 2027.
    • You can download the PDF at this link or see the first page of it above.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.