On "Taking your Practice Swing to the Ball"

[Ringer]

The real question is "Why aren't you taking your ball swing to your practice swing?"

[DaveLeeNC]

The real question is "Why aren't you taking your ball swing to your practice swing?"

Alas' - the answer that I have been searching for. I just have to find the right ball

dave

[ClintonM3]

I have been experimenting with not staring at the ball. Not focusing on hitting the ball, but rather to focus on the tension of my swing. Lighten grip pressure, so the hands and club turn over naturally - squared. All this seems to be working out great for me. I find that as long as I setup correctly, I tend to have great results.

Is that what they mean by "passive swing?" or is that something else.

I started swinging this way after watching this. This guys explaination makes sense to me

http://www.videojug.com/film/swing-instead-of-hit

[DaveLeeNC]

I have been experimenting with not staring at the ball. Not focusing on hitting the ball, but rather to focus on the tension of my swing. Lighten grip pressure, so the hands and club turn over naturally - squared. All this seems to be working out great for me. I find that as long as I setup correctly, I tend to have great results.

Interesting video - the breathing and mouth tips were particularly interesting, I thought.

I also noticed that Strongert would appear to be incapable of making a bad swing. Even his demonstration "bad swing" was a pretty good swing with an abbreviated follow-through. I can help him here dave

[lynchjo]

I went through an interesting experience a year or so back. I just happened to take a close look at my practice swing in video. Low and behold virtually all the swing faults that I had been working on were gone! My instant reaction was "all I have to do is to do that swing in front of a golf ball". I was expecting this to take a week or so of serious work.

Its amazing to watch most amatuers' practice swing as it flows so smooth with nice tempo and then the real swing is so different you wonder: "is that the same person?". Some really great advice in this thread from other members...this will take time to master especially if you have been "ball bound" for many years. During your practice swing your big muscles are loose because their is no ball to distract you, therefore your swing is smooth and rhythmic. Put a ball down and most amatuers become "ball bound" and tense the big muscles resulting in a not so effective swing...loose muscles are fast muscles...tense muscles kill the golf swing. Being ball bound also causes you to hit "at the ball", rather than "through the ball". Next time your at the range, focus on a smooth tempo only and just let the ball get in the way of your swing. Good luck and hit 'em long & straight! --John

[DaveLeeNC]

Its amazing to watch most amatuers' practice swing as it flows so smooth with nice tempo and then the real swing is so different you wonder: "is that the same person?".

Interesting for me, there's no visible tension or lack of rhythm in my real swing and the relative tempo's of my real and practice swings are surprisingly consistent. But when I do my "walk around drill" (described elsewhere in this thread) when I get to the ball you can see in my eyes some kind of a "calibration or something" that you don't see in the other swings. And you can see the instant that it happens if you look closely (it is toward the top of the backswing).

Hitting at the ball rather than through the ball may in some way be the real issue here - but I have tried and failed to take that information and achieve something useful with it. And the fact is that I can't even make a real backswing that matches my practice backswing. And just because I am typing here and have another chance - Has ANYONE out there ever video'ed their practice swing, observed the differences vs. a real swing, and tried to apply those differences to their real swing? If so what process did you use (the two obvious choices are to "just do it" or go after the differences one at a time). dave

[jc21539]

I have indeed videotaped my practice swings on numerous occasions. They are almost always better than my real swing. And I have spent many hours in front of a mirror trying to build muscle memory.

The process that I used? Failure.

You are never going to be able to physically fix a mental flaw. The only way to approach your problem is to find the root mental cause for your two different swings. If you can physically do it in your practice swing, it's not a physical problem.

Jack Nicklaus picked out a spot a few feet in front of the ball to line up to. This is not just an alignment aid. If you are able to pick out a target that you can see at the same time as the ball, this will allow your mind to better understand where it wants the ball, and thus the club, to go.

When I was about 5 years old, I was given my first real instruction on how to swing a golf club. I was given a single drill. My instructor had me set up in my normal golf stance, but without a ball. Then, from the address position, he had me quite literally throw the golf club down the driving range.

I cannot emphasize enough how helpful this drill will be to anyone who is concerned about their swing technique. The best part about this concept is that it is one thought, and it is so simple.

The bottom line is, the reason the best golfers in the world all have good looking swings is because they define what a good looking swing is. And the way they swing the club is with an incredible focus on their target and their target line. Even the ones that don't know it do it subconsciously - they just never learned otherwise.

[DaveLeeNC]

That is an interesting drill (club flinging) that I have done. It comes from Fred Shoemaker's book "Extraordinary Golf". He discusses these very issues - and then you get to the "therefore you should ......" part of the book and (from my perspective) it is more like Zen than golf. I can't find my copy of the book right now (it is at home somewhere or maybe i loaned it to someone), but from memory some of the steps that you should take to get your "fling the golf club swing" into you game was to walk around the course and absorb it, learn to close your eyes and walk to the cup, etc.

I just couldn't relate to it.

Regarding the statement "if you can do it in a practice swing then it isn't a physical problem". I wonder about that (often until I got tired of it). I truly don't know how my practice swing actually performs hitting a ball.

If I ever got motivated to work on my swing from this perspective again, I might try some experiments in this direction. The two that come to mind are to practice swing at a tee or some "adequately innocuous target" and see how good my ball contact really is. Secondarily would be a bunch of eyes closed swings with a friend who would occasionally "sneak a ball in".

Truly taking my practice swing to the ball is probably a monumental effort - and I think that there should be some verification that it is a good thing to do beyond simple observations that "it looks better". It might not be better.

Thanks for the comments.

dave

[tm22721]

My real swing became an exact duplicate of my practice swing after I got rid of my 'hitting impulse' at the top of the backswing.

BTW can anybody explain why my hitting impulse just magically disappeared when I started using a 3/4 swing ? Tempo improved too.

[flash]

My real swing became an exact duplicate of my practice swing after I got rid of my 'hitting impulse' at the top of the backswing.

The impulse disappeared because you used a 3/4 swing on your practice as well as your "real"? swing.Put it this way..how often off line do you hit from 100 yds. out? Try hitting driver 150yds. I bet you start hitting a lot more fairways.

[DaveLeeNC]

My real swing became an exact duplicate of my practice swing after I got rid of my 'hitting impulse' at the top of the backswing.

I'm curious - what differentiates (from your perspective) a hitting impulse swing from a not hitting impulse swing?

dave

[flash]

I'm curious - what differentiates (from your perspective) a hitting impulse swing from a not hitting impulse swing?

I think hitting impulse means the actual contact point.If you hit a wall your hand isn't going further,it is actually stopping.Make sense?Means he is not hitting 'through the ball'.

[Ringer]

I have been experimenting with not staring at the ball. Not focusing on hitting the ball, but rather to focus on the tension of my swing. Lighten grip pressure, so the hands and club turn over naturally - squared. All this seems to be working out great for me. I find that as long as I setup correctly, I tend to have great results.

That is a fantastic video. I think I'll start using some of that in some of my lessons.

[Ringer]

My real swing became an exact duplicate of my practice swing after I got rid of my 'hitting impulse' at the top of the backswing.

Because with a shorter backswing you have no choice but to accellerate if you want to get the ball a long way.

[tm22721]

I'm curious - what differentiates (from your perspective) a hitting impulse swing from a not hitting impulse swing?

The 'hitting impulse' is when I start with my shoulders instead of hips in the downswing. This can create any number of problems. Out-to-in club path, open club head, casting, scooping etc.

The 3/4 swing has a minimal lead-in. I am able to keep the club close to my body, pulling down on the grip and start releasing at 9:00 with a lot of lag at impact. The result is crisp ball contact/compression, correct divots and optimal ball trajectory. As long as I can stay behind the ball it flies straight to the green. Now I need to learn shot shaping to get the ball closer to the pin.

[jc21539]

Regarding the statement "if you can do it in a practice swing then it isn't a physical problem". I wonder about that (often until I got tired of it). I truly don't know how my practice swing actually performs hitting a ball.

That's a really good point. We will never know how our practice swings would actually perform when hitting a golf ball. I'm not exactly sure if the amount of clubhead speed they create would really be of any worth.

Also, sometimes I notice when I take practice swings that I don't actually swing over the same spot that I started the club in. That would make it a fairly useless real swing.

[lynchjo]

That is an interesting drill (club flinging) that I have done. It comes from Fred Shoemaker's book "Extraordinary Golf". He discusses these very issues - and then you get to the "therefore you should ......" part of the book and (from my perspective) it is more like Zen than golf. I can't find my copy of the book right now (it is at home somewhere or maybe i loaned it to someone), but from memory some of the steps that you should take to get your "fling the golf club swing" into you game was to walk around the course and absorb it, learn to close your eyes and walk to the cup, etc.

Hi Dave,

I agree with jc21539 in that not being able to duplicate your practice swing when there is a ball in front of you is probably a mental issue. That being said you obviously are doing a lot of things right with your swing since you are a 6 handicap...also, if I understood your previous post correctly that was you in the YouTube video doing a swing drill...from that angle in the video your swing looks solid; compact with a nice weight transfer and follow through...not a lot of moving parts. Have you ever read Timothy Gallwey's "The Inner Game of Golf"? Even Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods have their mental demons. Gallwey explains in his book why the art of relaxed concentration is the fundamental skill for improving every aspect of your game. Once you find a drill that cures your minor swing flaw (a lot of great drills in this thread) remember that any swing change takes time before it becomes habit...heck, even Tiger, the best golfer on the planet, took a while before his swing changes came into fruition. And if you never get rid of this minor swing flaw, who cares! Many awesome golfers have flaws in their swing...look at Jim Furyk, Lee Trevino, and even Jack Nicklaus' "flying left elbow" was considered unorthodox. The main character in Michael Murphy's book: "The Kingdom of Shiva Irons" says we all have an "authentic swing" but we forgot it when we were born...as we journey along this planet in search of our authentic swing we must remember the journey IS the destination... Happy searching Dave! --John

[lynchjo]

Hi Dave,

Hi Dave, Follow up to my last post, Is that you swinging in this YouTube video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WlwyKxjuns --John